Talk:Irish question

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ADAMN7117.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

The "Irish Question" is a 19th-century term.

In order that Ireland could defend against French invasion, in about 1800 the Parliament of Ireland and the Parliament of Britain both passed Acts uniting the separate kingdoms of Ireland and Great Britain into a single kingdom, the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland".

This mean that taxes raised in Britain could be spent in Ireland ... previously, the parliament in London had objected to the king spending in his role of King of Ireland taxes received in his role of King of Great Britain.This also meant that from then on the Irish had to pay to taxes to Britain.

The union of Ireland and Great Britain was not a happy affair; There was teo sides in the argument the nationalists(Irish people who believed that Ireland iwas a diffrent entity to Britain so therefore should be free from Britain and rule the country themselves)and Unionist(Irish usually protestants who were desendents of British who had been "planted" in Ireland previously by the British government, they beleived Ireland should remain united with Britain for financial and political reasons) these diffrences in opinion led to violence. Hence "the Irish Question".

And so, in the later part of the 19th century, the government attempted to dissove the union. Two attempts were made, but both were defeated as a result of opposition from the Unionists in Ireland and the Conservative party in Britain.

Eventually, the UK changed its constitution, to prevent the House of Lords from vetoing legislation passed by the elected representatives. (See "Parliament Act"). And in 1914, a Home Rule Bill was passed.

Unfortunately, the Great War intervened, and delayed implementation of Home Rule. This led to happy events in Ireland, which eventually resulted in Ireland becoming a separate kingdom again - the Irish Free State - with the same king as the UK. Ireland then fought a civil war, with republicans disputing the legitimate authority of the elected representatives in Dublin. The war concluded with the defeat of the republicans; but then the counties of Northern Ireland chose to be excluded from the Irish Free State.

The King of the Irish Free State was not supportive of Irish independence.

With a lot more work the Irish politicians finally got Ireland to become a Republic in 1948.

Tim

I don't think the Irish Question is really that simple. Wouldn't you say the fundamental question of independence/union transforms with the transformation of the conflict? In the late 18th, early 19th century the question concerned a clearly defined issue of union or independence between Ireland and England. Catholics and Protestants were not entirely divided on the question until Catholics began to gain rights into the late 19th century, then Protestants asserted themselves with the re-emergence of the Orange Order for unionism, etc. From which, the question transforms from a polarized question to a more complex issue between Protestants, Catholics and England, which then becomes a question between N. Ireland, the Irish Free State and England after partition. Thus, the "Irish Question" really has different meanings at different points in history. That may be a little much to explain better than I've explained it here, but isn't my understanding correct? --Kenneth M Burke 04:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'm biased in believing the question essentially remains today? --Kenneth M Burke 04:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Terms like 'the Jewish Question' and the 'Irish question' were deemed pompous in the 20th century, but that century is hardly a model of harmonious relations in and with either group. The 'Question' phrase surely reflects little other than a need to headline an informed debate or two around the relevant issues?--94.119.64.25 (talk) 16:37, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Self-Contradictory/trivialising

The latest addition to the article, re 2017, correctly contradicts the old framing of the phrase as passé, and the Disraeli quote seems to disprove the article's current 'PC' gloss on the matter to the effect that the 'ruling class' used the term in a 'patronising' fashion. Phrases like 'Irish Question' and 'Jewish Question' are not intrinsically patronising, but rather reflect the fact that these were (and arguably Remain) pressing issues of the day, and the educated and those working to timetables absolutely need(ed) a way to refer to/table the matter. As for the current Wikipedian norm of decapitalising the second element, this arguably adds insult to injury, trivialising both major Questions.--94.119.64.7 (talk) 11:45, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

1066 And All That

I don't have a copy to hand, so I can't post this, but surely the article should mention the famous line in the satire "1066 And All That", written in the 1930s, that Mr Gladstone spent the latter part of his career trying to guess the answer to the Irish Question, but just as he was getting warm the Irish secretly changed the question. (It refers to his devoting his time to religious and land reform, only for Home Rule to take over the agenda in the 1880s.)Paulturtle (talk) 04:54, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that, since he didn't actually say it, we would have to exclude it. Though perhaps if it were put in a side box clearly identified as satire? Trouble is, it is not even contemporary comment (like Hogarth cartoons were, for example). I am a little doubtful as to its value, TBH. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 10:38, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A famous quote is still a famous quote even if the person "didn't actually say it", and knocking popular myths on the head is something the internet is actually very good at. In this instance it's a famous line from a notable and oft-reprinted (at least as recently as 1998) satire of half-remembered school history books (written when the 1880s were still within living memory, but that's of no great importance). It would belong in an "in popular culture" section.Paulturtle (talk) 03:53, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Irish Question quotations include:

Chapter 18 (John: An Awful King) Indeed, he had begun badly as a Bad Prince, having attempted to answer the Irish Question(*) by pulling the beards of the aged Irish chiefs, which was a Bad Thing and the wrong answer. (*)N.B. The Irish Question at this time consisted of: (1) Some Norman Barons, who lived in a Pail (near Dublin), (2) The natives and Irish Chieftains, who were beyond the Pail, living in bogs, beards, etc.
Chapter 30 (Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck) Henry VII was very good at answering the Irish Question, and made a Law called Poyning's Law by which the Irish could have a Parliament of their own, but the English were to pass all the Acts in it.
Chapter 38 (Williamanmary: England Ruled by an Orange) Meanwhile the Orange increased its popularity and showed themselves to be a very strong King by its ingenious answer to the Irish Question; this consisted in the Battle of the Boyne and a very strong treaty which followed it, stating (a) that all the Irish Roman Catholics who liked could be transported to France, (b) that all the rest who liked could be put to the sword, (c) that Northern Ireland should be planted with Blood Orangemen. These Blood-Orangemen are still there; they are, of course, all descendants of Nell Glyn and are extremely fierce and industrial and so loyal that they are always ready to start a loyal rebellion to the Glory of God and the Orange. All of which shows that the Orange was a Good Thing, as well as being a good King. After the Treaty the Irish who remained were made to go and live in a bog and think of a New Question.
Chapter 57 (Disraeli and Gladstone) Gladstone also invented the Education Rate by which it was possible to calculate how soon anybody could be educated, and spent his declining years trying to guess the answer to the Irish Question; unfortunately, whenever he was getting warm, the Irish secretly changed the Question, so that as he grew older and older Gladstone became angrier and angrier, and grander and grander, and was ultimately awarded the affectionate title of `the G.P.O.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:148A:9B01:D811:62F4:FC7C:C313 (talk) 14:45, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move this page. Primefac (talk) 17:09, 3 October 2020 (UTC) Primefac (talk) 17:09, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Irish question → Irish Question – Most results seem to have a capital "Q".[1] Unreal7 (talk) 22:07, 10 September 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. -- Calidum 15:42, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I was ready to Support but then checked ngrams. Lowercase “question” is more prevalent. I think the nom’s straight Google search is distorted by a pro-cap bias due to many of the results being titles thus in title case. —-В²C ☎ 06:44, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per consistency with similar articles, and being a proper noun._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:07, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment on consistency, there seems no consensus. Some examples:

National Question, essentially a list of such questions, has a mix, of which 12 are "Question" and 7 are "question" (depending on how you count). Probably this should be lowercase Q by the normal grammatical rule that the specific is capped but the generic is lowercase.

The category is at Category:National questions.
There is a subcat Category:Macedonian Question, but the mainspace page name is Macedonian question.
The section link Demographic history of Macedonia § Macedonian Question in National Question was incorrectly capped, it has lowercase Q in the article. I fixed it to use the redirect Macedonian question, per MOS:NOPIPE.

Adriatic Question has headings "Albanian question" and "Montenegrin question" in lower case (and "Albanian question" once in the text). (We don't have any pages with these names in either lettercase.)
Jewish Question, but the first sentence starts "The Jewish question..." and the article uses both (outside quotations).
National question (Quebec), but the first sentence starts "The National Question..." capped.
Oregon boundary dispute (Rs Oregon question and Oregon Question) used "Oregon Question" over twenty times but "Oregon question" four times, I've changed those per MOS:ARTCON.
West Lothian question has a book quote which says "west Lothian question", which is plainly wrong (the question was asked by the MP for West Lothian, Tam Dalyell). I don't have the book so can't mark it " [sic]" or fix it.

Other articles with titles ending " Question" or " question" appear (at a glance) to be internally consistent. 85.238.91.38 (talk) 07:08, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.