Talk:Irish clothing

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[Untitled]

Alpaca? No. removing vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.226.70 (talk) 18:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this article has multiple issues - lots! I'd be willing to help improve it, but I am overwhelmed by the enormity of the topic. How can I cover a topic as large as Irish Clothing when Mairead Dunlevy has written an entire book on the subject and still could not include much detail? The Wikipedia help page on "scope" says that the scope is determined by consensus. So lets talk.

1. Should this topic even be attempted? There is no "English Clothing" page, just a category page that brings all the English clothing topics together. Would it be best to get rid of this page and just use the Irish clothing category page to connect related pages?

2. If this page is kept, should it be arranged chronologically by time period? Or should it be arranged by article of clothing: cloaks, caps, jumpers, etc.

3. Maybe both approaches: History of clothing followed by Irish articles of clothing of note: Aran sweater, Galway Shawl, etc.

4. If I outlined the time periods, could I get a volunteers who would take on a time period so that no one person has to write it all?

5. I've already written an article on The Galway Shawl and the Kinsale Cloak. There is a good article (not on this page) on the Aran jumper. Would continuing to write on smaller topics be the best approach, and just leave this page as it for now?

Thanks for your input. --LynnMGallagher (talk) 05:21, 5 January 2017 (UTC)LynnMGallagher[reply]

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Dubious sumptuary law claim

The article presently says the following, without a source:

In fact, sumptuary portion of the brehon law decreed that slaves could only wear cloaks with one color, while freemen could wear four and kings wore several different colors.

Aside from the fact that any addition to Wikipedia beging with "In fact" almost always ends up being not a fact but some drive-by user's random opinion, this particular claim sounds suspiciously like Victorian-era repetition of a story about Eochaid Étgudach, a legendary king of around 1537 and 1155 BC, who was said to have passed a sumptuary law along these lines during his very short alleged reign. It is simply old folklore, though repeated as if factual by some credulous Victorian writers like James Logan in The Scottish Gaël (1831), and one later author, Adam Frank in The Clans, Septs, and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands (1908), just parroting from Logan. It has nothing at all to do with any actual history of medieval and later Irish garb (for which, in great detail, see H.F. McClintock Old Irish and Highland Dress, 1950). An actual sumptuary law along these lines in attested, surviving brehon law would be remarkable, and certainly requires reliable sourcing.

THe original legend is covered here:

Macalister, R. A. Stewart; Murphy, Michael, eds. (2008). Lebor Gabála Érenn: The Book of the Taking of Ireland (PDF). Vol. Part VI: Index D–F. University College Cork. "Eochu Édgathach" entry. Retrieved 10 June 2023 – via CELT: Corpus of Electronic Texts.

If a solid source for this probable nonsense is not forthcoming soon, I'm going to delete the above materialf from the article. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 14:06, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a section in the Senchus Mór which says that what colors of clothing a boy is allowed to wear is restricted based on his father's rank. ex only the sons of kings are allowed to wear blue and purple. One recension mentions that sons of the highest rank should have clothes with gold and silver embroidery, which presumably means that those garments would have at least 3 colors on them. The Senchus Mór does not explicitly assign number of colors worn by rank however, nor does it mention slaves.

I think deleting this passage is reasonable.

(Also, the only translation I have for the Senchus Mór passage is the O'Donovan et al 1865 version which I don't consider a good source. Apparently, none of O'Donovan et al actually knew Old Irish) Wanderingspark (talk) 04:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]