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Archive 1

Page name: Irena Sendlerowa vs. Irena Sendler

Why is this article listed under "Irena Sendlerowa", and not under "Irena Sendler" as e.g. at Yad Vashem? On which sources is this based?--Matthead 22:17, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


Because....some people know her by that name. Thus, being the same thing..] \ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.102.152.228 (talk) 23:50, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

Irena Sendlerowa → Irena Sendler – Listed as Irena Sendler by Yad Vashem and other sources, Sendlerowa seems to be Polonized version only

Sendlerowa = wife of Sendler - the official polish form is Irena Sendler and no doubts about it. Barry Kent 22:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

In the time she was married to Mr Sendler the -owa ending was official. This situation continued also after WWII in Poland, especially for women married before 1945. Later the -owa ending went out of official use, but was widely used informally at least until the early 1970s. Older people still use this name form informally.
--Jidu Boite (talk) 16:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Support as nom --Matthead 12:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Olessi 15:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose this is the english-language wikipedia. we don't call Greece by Hellas for example. there already is a notation: "Irena Sendler (née Krzyżanowska, AKA in Poland Irena Sendlerowa, Nom de guerre Jolanta; 15 February 1910 – 12 May 2008)." i'll just make a redirect page. Cramyourspam (talk) 03:03, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

Independent sources (see external links) list her as "Irena Sendler". I can understand that Poles call her Irena Sendlerowa, but why does English Wikipedia, too? --Matthead 12:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

No support at all for the present title? --Matthead 17:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Result:moved

Ok, clear, moving is in order. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 22:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

No Actually (threads above are obsolete)

This is for anyone finding this discussion later: there was a redirect page made. Irena Sendlerowa redirects to the english Irena Sendler. this redirect page was made circa 2006! and all's well. Cramyourspam (talk) 03:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Year of Birth?

Under her picture it's written 1909. What is right? Calle Widmann (talk) 10:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn't. ~ the polish encyclopedist 15:38, 12 May2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.8.208.63 (talk)

Nobel Nomination

An 'internet authority' has been arguing with me that there is no proof she [Sendler] was nominated - but for Poland's President Lech Kaczynski strongly implying it. Nominators are not supposed to say who they have nominated, [although Gore's did], so should this setion remain? 71.139.149.200 (talk) 00:44, 15 July 2008 (UTC).

It is not really relevant here whether nominations are or are not supposed to be revealed. The point is that in this case there was a high-profile public campaign to nominate her, which was reported by multiple reliable sources. Therefore the section should certainly be kept. Nsk92 (talk) 13:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

“Regardless of its legitimacy” needs to be removed as you can see there are tons of nominations that have been given to the public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Nobel+peace+prize+nomination&sourceid=Mozilla-search 04:14, 20 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.95.87.42 (talk)

her own obituary in the RS newspaper The Telegraph says: "In 2003 she was awarded Poland's highest honour, the Order of the White Eagle; and last year she was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, eventually won by Al Gore." there is a POV campaign out there to remove this FACT. nonetheless, she was nominated and the info stays. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1950450/Irena-Sendler.html Cramyourspam (talk) 03:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Whether or not these nominations are supposed to be kept secret, her nomination was well-known and I'm not aware of anyone contradicting the report. Now, saying "nominated but did not win" is redundant, because "nominated" by itself for a past event, is understood to mean "did not win". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:21, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
agreed though 'but did not win' might clarify it for some readers. either way, the fact that she was indeed nominated does need to stay. there was a pile of RS coverage about that. cheers. Cramyourspam (talk) 03:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
This was the first time I've seen anyone question it. It was widespread public knowledge. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
It was widespread public knowledge. It is also quite possibly false. It seems to me an NPOV violation to report it as fact, without also reporting it is impossible that it be confirmed (or denied). — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:34, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
The campaign to nominate her is notable, and does not appear in the article. That seems more significant than the fact of her nomination. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Valid sourcing would be needed for both of your statements immediately above. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:54, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
It should be pointed out that the body of the article doesn't say she was nominated, (it says that 'Polish President Lech Kaczyński stated she "can justly be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize."'), and obituaries, even of famous people, are generally not considered reliable sources for anything which might be considered contraversial, as most of the information is prepared by friends of the deceased and only fact-checked for defamation. I think we need a better source for the nomination. I'm not going to edit war further, but the statement needs better sourcing, and the caveats have better sourcing. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 13:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Actually, at this point you would need to find sourcing that contradicts the widely-known fact (or alleged fact, you might say) of her being nominated. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:10, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
btw, it is a myth that "nominations are secret" as some say. the committee may not disclose the full nominee list for 50 years, but nothing stops individual nominators from leaking --as occasionally happens. just saying. Cramyourspam (talk) 21:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Jews were Poles too

A frequent mistake creeped in: "Jewish children were placed with Polish families," - Jews were Polish families too. In every sense of the word: They were full polish citizens, part of the polish culture, etc. I will add "Polish Christian families" into the sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.97.115 (talk) 09:24, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Catholic social worker

An IP edit[1] removed "Catholic" from "Polish Catholic social worker" from the lead paragraph. I have reverted since a "Catholic social worker" is how she is typically described by reliable sources, e.g.[2][3][4][5], etc. Nsk92 (talk) 16:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm the author of edition mentioned above. NONE of polish source describes her as catholic activist!!! - moreover her life points that she had socialist political orientation and NOTHING common with any religion - sources mentioned above takes content from Wikipedia - this way this mistake is multiplied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.158.196.69 (talk) 16:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I am fairly sure that the sources I cites above (LA Times, NPR, Telegraph), do not take their cues from Wikipedia. In any event, until there is a consensus on this point (and right now there is a disagreement between two editors, you and me), the previous version, reflecting prior consensus, should stand. That is the standard Wikipedia protocol. We can request additional input from others, via WP:3O or an RfC, but until consensus is achieved, please do not re-insert this edit. Nsk92 (talk) 17:08, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The sources say she's Catholic. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, I'm Pole and from interviews with her I know she wasn't very religious and she was definitely socialist, as her parents. So describing her as "catholic social worker" is jus unfair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.16.109.226 (talk) 10:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
To call someone a "catholic social worker" implies that they either worked for a catholic organisation, or that they were inspired by their catholicism to do what they do. In the absence of evidence for either these things, the description is misleading. One does not have to ape the sloppy journalism in newspapers! Sasha (talk) 12:31, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

She was not socialist supporter. She was a member of Home Army (AK - Armia Krajowa), after WWII she was kept in prison by socialsit soviet poiltical police. They treat her in the same way like Gestapo. During comunism time in Poland she was'n well known - because her engagement in Home Army movement. So, as a Pole, I can strongly say - she was a social worker, but she was not a socialist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.222.121.72 (talk) 23:39, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

She was in PPS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.205.15.137 (talk) 22:15, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Bold font in lead?

Is there a reason why the whole lead is in bold font? Wiki-uk (talk) 05:07, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Photos

Does anyone have access to public-domain photos of Irena Sendler before or during World War II? It would be nice to show her in that period, not only in her 90s. Nihil novi (talk) 08:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

great idea! anyone? Cramyourspam (talk) 03:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

TV movie

In the introduction, this page describes Anna Paquin as a Canadian actress while her Wikipedia page describes her as a "Canadian-born New Zealand actress." I think this page should be changed to refer to her as a New Zealand actress. She moved to NZ when she was four. Ghartwig (talk) 10:19, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe "Canadian actress" should be removed, as Anna's background is clearly described in Anna Paquin wiki page. Also, this page has nothing to do with Anna Paquin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.193.121.240 (talk) 16:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Advertising

I'm a little unsure of what to do with the Life in a Jar and Film Adaptation sections. They have a whiff of advertising about them, but due to their direct relevance (at least they are documenting her life, as opposed to "paying tribute" like a few other advertising pieces I reverted) they may warrant inclusion. Anyone have any opinions one way or another on this? --ShadowRangerRIT (talk) 13:58, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Since Life in a Jar has its own article now, I've {{Main}}-ed it and summarized the info, so the article is about the person instead of advertising for other people's projects so blatantly. —ShadowRanger (talk|stalk) 18:17, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi this is AJ from the band mentioned on this page. Please do not remove it and do not mark it as advertising. That song has as much relevance to this page as any painting of Irena, any movie or any documentary about her life. It's like all the others, an interpretation of her life & celebrates her gallant work. It's not on here as an advertisement - it's here to show that her life is an inspiration to everyone, from all walks of life, including artists. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.170.171 (talk) 22:06, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I removed the following ELs per WP:EL and relevancy, repetition grounds. Some of them might be useful as inline references. I am pasting them here (as they were) in case anyone wants to work them into the article as refernces:

Novaseminary (talk) 19:44, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

How did she get the name Sendler?

Did she get the name Sendler by marriage? If so, who and when did she marry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.92.65.10 (talk) 18:58, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Credibility?

What is the credibility of her story? C'mon legs and arms broken and then escaping immediately after that by bribing a German officer...--41.151.93.143 (talk) 10:28, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

If you can find any reliable sources that have questioned the credibility of her 'story' then perhaps that can be added to the article .. but it all seems credible to me. -- Peter (Talk page) 13:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

McGrudis (talk) 19:52, 13 June 2017 (UTC) The actual numbers of children rescued by Irena Sendler have been overestimated. Further analysis of documentation puts the figure closer to 250, not 2500. I'm unsure how to broach this, as this correction may be perceived as an effort to undermine her efforts, which are still remarkable. http://www.taubephilanthropies.org/2017-irena-sendler-awardees

  • The Jewish Virtual Library says: "Irena Sendler defied the Nazis and saved 2,500 Jewish children by smuggling them out of the Warsaw Ghetto."
  • PBS says: "Irena and her colleagues. . . managed to save the lives of at least 2,500 Jewish children."
  • Chabad.org says: "The young woman was 29-year-old Irena Sendler, a Polish Catholic social worker who saved 2,500 Jewish children from the Nazis." YoPienso (talk) 19:17, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Did she had a jewish lover?

in the 2009 film, it is depicted that she and one of her underground friends (which is Jewish), are having an affair. is this applicable for real life? could you add some info?. thanks Ben-Natan (talk) 17:04, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

 Done. Poeticbent talk 19:23, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Commander's Cross by the Israeli Institute.

The article had the following sentence, which I removed: "She was also awarded the Commander's Cross by the Israeli Institute.". It was unreferenced; while I found some refs on the net they are dubious: they repeat our sentence verbatim, and are newer than the edit 2007 where an anon added this claim ([6]). What is the Israeli Institute anyway? Is this a notable award? Top hits for "Israeli Institute" "commander's cross" are forks of this very biography. Whether it is a hoax, or a bad translation of something, or a very minor award I am not sure, but in either case, unless we get a proper reliable reference I am removing this from her bio. To anyone who wants to re-add it with a ref: please make sure the ref is from pre-2007, because way too many sources are using this claim based on copying it from here. Sigh. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:00, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Jedwabne

re edit with summary "this bit sounds unnecessarily mean → what's worse, article author Dybała does not provide a single source for anything she says"

Yes it seem mean, but only because this article says not a single bit of the vast amount of antisemitism Sendler had to endure in Poland. (IMO AK was just a pretext: a number of notable communist functionaries were hush-hush post-AK.) And her saying can actually be found in Anna Mieszkowska's book (at least in the first edition; I don't have access to the recent one). At the same time I do agree that the phrase taken out of context looks rather brutal. Therefore I did not revert Poeticbent's edit, but rather "enhanced" it, until the article expanded to put her bitter opinion in a proper context. Staszek Lem (talk) 03:11, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

  • I'm sure we can agree on one thing, Sendler was not being quoted here. I removed a torturous phrase written in exceptionally poor, second-hand English by a newspaper writer whose name is alien to me. In the English language: "I am not impressed" is a euphemistic way of saying: "I am not too happy about it" ... or even worse ... that the honors were not of high quality in Sendler's opinion. She would never have said that. Poeticbent talk 04:45, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
@Staszek Lem and Poeticbent: The source of this is not a newspaper, but her bio at sprawiedliwi.org.pl ("Nie była zadowolona z tych odznaczeń, powiedziała kiedyś: „Po Jedwabnym potrzebny jest bohater”."). You are right that (like most such websites), Anna Dybała does not cite any sources; I am also unable to locate another reliable source for this quote. Nonetheless the website is reliable ([7] - run by Muzeum Historii Żydów Polskich POLIN. Dybała also seems like a reliable expert: [8] - employed in the Instytut Historyczny Uniwersytetu Warszawskiego. As such, I think that we can cite her; if you'd prefer, we can attribute it to her (According to Anna Dybała..."). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:10, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
re: "she was not impressed" - yes, it sounded weird originally, that's why I added an explanation by citing her words. And above I mentioned an extra ref for her words. Her words say that she was not acting as a spoiled brat ("Komandorski to przyczepilibyście sami sobie do dupy"), but rather she perceived hypocrisy in belated flurry of an overkill of state awards for basically one and the same deed. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:28, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

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Vandals

Some vandal changed the bird date in Infobox. Take action please. Carlotm (talk) 20:24, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Moreover, in "Recognition and remembrance" chapter an Al Gore citation sneaked in, most likely as a vandalic act. Carlotm (talk) 19:45, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

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Use of Ewa Kurek as a source

The following was reverted. To begin with iUniverse is a self-publishing company, which would preclude using this source in most situations - however, surprisingly, this is not the most troubling aspect here. The author Ewa Kurek - while she does have a PhD from the Catholic University of Lublin, she is not particularly well published nor cited (note - there is a better published microbiologist with the same name - plwiki entry - so if you go scholar - you need to filter out all the life sciences hits) - nor does it seem does she hold a significant academic post (as of 2006 - wyborcza article on her views on "Jews having fun in the ghetto" - she held a lecturing position in "Higher School of Skills in Kielce" (which seems to mainly do weekend studies - per the city website). Moving a bit onwards, it seems she has quite interesting views about Jews - and it seems she has been called out on it by Poland Stops Ceremony for Author Accused of Anti-Semitism, NY Times (AP reprint) - not only the Jewish community, but it would seem also Polish government officials (yup - the current government). AP leads off with One, Polish author Ewa Kurek, has claimed that Jews had fun in the ghettos during the German occupation of Poland during World War II when describing her, and notes a response by the Polish government "Andrzej Pawluszek, an adviser to Poland's prime minister, said Wednesday that the award was never a government initiative, but authorities acted to stop an event that would have been divisive.". per Why Was Historian Who Blames Jews For Complicity with Nazis Considered For Humanitarian Prize?, Forward - "“Deeper research” reveals that Kurek says Jewish perfidy is intrinsic to Jewish law and communal organization." (not so deep research - you might see this in the video of her speaking above (which I found prior to this article - containing - “Jews behave like a [herd] of lions in a threatening situation,” Kurek says in a YouTube video. “Lions are said to throw the weakest ones to death, to save the rest. And this is the norm among Jews. We Christians, since the beginning of … time, we have one principle: In the situation of a threat, the strong protect the vulnerable. If someone tells you about a Judeo-Christian civilization, then there is no such thing because this [Judaic] law excludes our civilization.”. Some have noted some subtle aspects to her discourse “Kurek is more subtle than [Holocaust denier] David Irving,” Holocaust scholar Berel Lang told the Forward. “She doesn’t deny the genocide but argues rather that the Jews were complicit with the Nazis in organizing the wartime ghetto system.”. In short - we should definitely not be using her as a source in Wikipedia for WWII history.Icewhiz (talk) 12:16, 25 April 2018 (UTC) The charge that Ewa Kurek reduced the Warsaw ghetto to a fun spot is a gross exaggeration. In her book, Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945: Beyond the Limits of Solidarity, Kurek vividly describes the tragedy that was unfolding in the ghettos and the horror of the deportations to the death camps. What appears to have triggered the Gazeta Wyborcza’s comments is actually found at pp. 214-215, where Kurek cites three passages from Emanuel Ringelblum’s notes. It is Ringelblum who is criticizing all the partying that is going on and the nightclubs that are “multiplying endlessly.” Twice he repeats, “The ghetto is dancing.” Ringelblum is also embarrassed by what Poles outside of the ghetto thought of the nightclubs and partying, at a time when many ghetto dwellers were starving and conditions outside the ghetto were also stark. When, in this context, Kurek mentions that “the Warsaw ghetto enjoyed itself,” she was referring to this very phenomenon. Other accounts from the ghetto also describe what was happening with shame, for example, Bernard Goldstein (The Stars Bear Witness), Jacob Celemenski (Elegy For My People), Stanisław Różycki (Archiwum Ringelbluma), and many others.Tatzref (talk) 05:10, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Note

The above wall-of-text is a multiple copy-paste by User:Icewhiz also posted at Talk:The Holocaust in Poland‎ and Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust‎ on 25 April 2018. Poeticbent talk 15:39, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Not the same text - it is actually a different book in some of them (and I modified the text and the diffs posted) - in this particular article it is also WP:SELFPUBLISHed in iUniverse - beyond the other problems. I pointed out the relevance to this article in a diff (sourcing a single short paragraph). I have been engaging in a cleanup of this questionable source - which thankfully only made its way into very few articles on enwiki.Icewhiz (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
Icewhiz, you copy/pasted irrevelant to this discussion text from here[9]. I can hardly follow this flooding and many propably dont even read it due to it's lenght.2A01:110F:4505:DC00:D802:543F:9A84:1976 (talk) 06:46, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
@GizzyCatBella: why are you reverting back in a self-published book (iUniverse) by a questionable author, which also falsely portrays Poland as "the only country in German-occupied Europe in which such a death penalty was applied"? Per WP:SPS, books from iUniverse are a clearly not RS.Icewhiz (talk) 11:32, 8 May 2018 (UTC)


Ewa Kurek (iUniverse) with false information - following RSN discussion

@Piotrus, K.e.coffman, Tatzref, François Robere, GizzyCatBella, and Ealdgyth: (RSN participants) - the following revert restored information sourced to Ewa Kurek's WP:SPS iUniverse book on which we had a rather clear consensus to exclude at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 241#The Holocaust in Poland: Ewa Kurek & Mark Paul. The information reverted is also factually false - in particular Poland was the only country in German-occupied Europe in which such a death penalty was applied - is contradicted by actual RS - as the same policy was applied in Nazi controlled territories throughout the Eastern front[10], Serbia[11], Norway[12], and a few other places (which I shall not source, as the 3 prior are sufficient to show this is patently false).Icewhiz (talk) 15:21, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

See iUniverse. It's a self-publishing company. Per WP:SPS, self-published works are generally considered unreliable and should not be used in preference to other more reliable sources. The proper thing to do when someone points out that a source is from a self-publishing company ... is to replace the source with a better one, not continue to insist on using a self-published source.
The first bits (the decree in October stating death as the punishment) can be sourced to Nechama Tec When Light Pierced the Darkness: Christian Rescue of Jews in Nazi-Occupied Poland Oxford University Press: New York, 1986 ISBN 0-19-503643-3 pp. 21-23. The sentence should read "This work was done at huge risk, as—since October 1941—helping remove Jews from the ghettos or hide and assist them afterwards in German-occupied Poland was punishable by death, not just for the person who was providing the help but also for their entire family or household." Tec does NOT support the following "Poland was the only country in German-occupied Europe in which such a death penalty was applied." ... for another source that contradicts the narrative that only in Poland was the death penalty applied - see Waitman Wade Beorn The Holocaust in Eastern Europe: At the Epicenter of the Final Solution Bloomsbury: London, 2018 p. 269 "Rescuers providing hiding places also placed their families in danger, for all would be shot if they were caught. In Kharkov, a journalist, Alexandra Byelova, was caught hiding a Jewish girl and executed. The Nazis executed Lithuanian Joudka Vytautas along with two Jewish women she had hidden." (Beorn can also be used to support the first bit about families in danger). Ealdgyth - Talk 16:38, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Ewa Kurek's doctoral dissertation was published in 1992 by Znak, a leading Polish publishing house, as Gdy klasztor znaczyl zycie: Udzial zenskich zgromadzen zakonnych w akcji ratowania dzieci zydowskich w Polsce w latach 1939-1945. It was translated into English as Your Life Is Worth Mine with a foreword by Jan Karski, and published by Hippocrene Books in New York (1997). It is mentioned in a number of publications, among them Nahum Bogner’s The Convent Children: The Rescue of Jewish Children in Polish Convents During the Holocaust (Yad Vashem, 2009), where her book is cited extensively. Yad Vashem has endorsed Kurek’s book as recommended reading (http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/education/courses/life_lessons/pdfs/lesson8_7.pdf). As for her book Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945: Beyond the Limits of Solidarity (iUniverse, Inc., 2012), that is an English translation of Poza granica solidarnosci: Stosunki polsko-zydowskie 1939-1945, which was published by Wyzsza Szkola Umiejetnosci (Kielce 2006), an accredited post-secondary school: http://www.pomaturze.pl/pages/160/98/Wyzsza+Szkola+Umiejetnosci+im+Stanislawa+Staszica+w+Kielcach. While it is true that helping Jews was punishable by death in some jurisdictions other than occupied Poland, one has to distinguish between the existence of a law/decree/policy and the practice. First of all, the law was broader in Poland, and also extended to not reporting Jews in hiding. For the relevant decrees, see Władysław Bartoszewski and Zofia Lewin, eds., Righteous Among Nations: How Poles Helped the Jews, 1939–1945 (London: Earlscourt Publications, 1969), 634, 639–44. Secondly, outside Poland the death penalty was rarely imposed. The Institute of National Remembrance, which is presently conducting thorough research on this topic, has documented more than 800 cases of Poles put to death for helping Jews. The first volume of a series of publications is Aleksandra Namysło and Grzegorz Berendt (eds.), Rejestr faktów represji na obywatelach polskich za pomoc ludności żydowskiej w okresie II wojny światowej (Warsaw: Instytut Pamięci Narodowej–Komisja Ścigania Zbrodni przeciwko Narodowi Polskiemu, 2014), Internet: <http://arch.ipn.gov.pl/ftp/pamiec_ebooki/REJESTR_faktow_Represji.pdf>. Entire families including their children – like the Ulma family – were shot by the Germans and their bodies thrown into their home, which had been set ablaze. Helena Ausenberg described how, in October 1942, she was part of a group of Jews forced by the Germans to march from Polaniec to Szczucin, in Dabrowa Tarnowska county. Poles were strictly forbidden to approach the Jews. A Polish woman who noticed a Jewish child she used to care for was shot on the spot when she tried to give the child some water. Something like this was unheard of outside of Poland. Although Jan Grabowski refers to this testimony in Hunt for the Jews, he neglects to mention this important information. (See http://www.kpk-toronto.org/wp-content/uploads/Grabowski-Hunt-Critique-6.doc.) So in viewing the punishment in Poland as far harsher in practice than elsewhere, she is not off the mark. Kurek’s study is not a comparative study of various occupied countries, so the fact that stated incorrectly that Poland was the only country with the death penalty is hardly a sufficient basis to disqualify her book. Virtually every book on the Holocaust, including those by major scholars, contains significant errors.Tatzref (talk) 05:12, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

De-blocking the above:
  1. Kurek's "Your Life is Mine" was published by Znak (Poland, 1992) and Hippocrene (NY, 1997), and mentioned in some respectable publications.
  2. Her "Polish Jewish Relations" was published by her school (Kielce, 2006) and by an unknown (2012).
  3. The rest of the paragraph tries to show that enforcement (of the death penalty on helping Jewish refugees) was harsher in Poland, and that Kurek shouldn't be faulted for not being comprehensive or accurate.
De-structuring the above:
  1. I don't know Znak, but I'll take your word on their quality.
  2. Hippocrene is a "general purpose" publisher, and seems relatively minor.
  3. The school in Kielce seems minor as well. While accredited, they only list 42 prof's and post-docs, and a 31k books library.
  4. The last publisher is entirely unknown.
  5. You claim that a) the law was broader in Poland, and b) it was rarely enforced elsewhere. This isn't what Kurek claimed (as you yourself admit), and even if it was - you provide no comparative evidence to support it.
  6. I agree that a single error rarely disqualifies a book; indeed, the RSN discussion was based on much more than just that error.
  7. But even if it wasn't, and she was found to be reliable, and we were allowed to cite her anywhere we wanted, we're only asked to cite one claim of hers - the one even you agree is erroneous. There's no reason we should do that.
François Robere (talk) 15:01, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
The Polish Underground and the Jews, 1939-1945 by Joshua Zimmerman has been corrected by the author and his Polish editors. Do the errors make Zimmerman unreliable?Xx236 (talk) 06:07, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Znak has published JT Gross.Xx236 (talk) 06:08, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

a German soldier ?

Wasn't it a warden rather than soldier?Xx236 (talk) 07:16, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Misuse of sources

In what appears as a POVish hagiography, the following was entered into the article, the google-books search term rather betraying the intent. The first source, cited twice for some reason, is not about Sendler - so it is WP:SYNTH. The second source mentions the death penalty for printing newspapers, not for helping Jews, and is thus not connected to the sentence at all.Icewhiz (talk) 07:09, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Additional sources added (including some highly questionable one - e.g. Eaw Kurek) do not support the wording, and do not mention Sendler in this regard .Icewhiz (talk) 08:02, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
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