Talk:Indian gaming

Disambig

One of the DAB entries is to Gambling in India, and there is no mention of Gaming there. I assume the DAB is meant as a synonym, and per MOS:DABSYN, the disambiguated title has to be mentioned as a synonym in the targeted article. Jay ^(Talk) 06:35, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:WHENNOTCITE, Citations are not used on disambiguation pages (sourcing for the information given there should be done in the target articles). The disambig page does not need to prove that Gambling in India is known an gaming. However, in the absence of a citation at the target, verifiability at the disambig page fails. Jay ^(Talk) 17:41, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

See WP:BLUE. It's a synonym found in any dictionary. MB 17:46, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

This is not a gaming page disambiguating to gambling. This is Indian gaming disambiguating to Gambling in India, hence is region-specific and not dictionary verified. Jay ^(Talk) 04:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

No, both Indian and gaming are individually ambiguous. Each part has two meanings. MB 04:19, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Agree that they are individually ambiguous. But what has this got to do with justifying a target to Gambling in India? Jay ^(Talk) 05:30, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Indian gaming could mean four different thing:

1. Indian (country) gaming (gambling) - best target is Gambling in India
2. Indian (country) gaming (non-wagering games) - best target is Video games in India
3. Indian (North American peoples) gaming (gambling) - best target is Native American gaming
4. Indian (North American peoples) gaming (non-wagering games) - no target, no coverage, no article

The utility of this seems quite obvious to me, and everyone who said disambiguate at the RFD implicitly agreed with this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MB (talk • contribs) 23:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Agree with 2,3 and 4. I'm good with 1 if there is a reference. The voters at the RfD (including me) agreed that the previous target was not proper, but no one excepting Mlb96 tried to justify the DAB or respond to my objection, and no one participated in this talk page discussion, and no one excepting you participated in the WT:Disambiguation discussion, to which I had given the links to. Jay ^(Talk) 03:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

A reference to what? That gambling can be called gaming in India too? That is not reasonable because someone anywhere in the world could be looking for information on gambling/gaming in India and they might search on "Indian gaming" because that occurs to them as the most appropriate search term. MB 04:52, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Right, a reference that gambling is called gaming in India. Because if it is not called so, we are going by assumption or WP:OR, and we should not be directing readers to a wrong entry. Jay ^(Talk) 13:48, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree with MB. Jay, I think you're misunderstanding DABSYN. It's referring to a specific circumstance under which an entry needs no explanation at all. I don't think anyone is arguing for listing Gambling in India that way. --BDD (talk) 22:08, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I made that point in the other thread at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Synonym disambiguations and mention. I think we have used enough ink on this one. MB 23:33, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I have replied in that thread, and it is in progress. If there is no clarity on the verifiability aspect, then we would need to have wordings to make it clear. From what I understand the Disambiguation guideline is vague on that aspect. Jay ^(Talk) 13:48, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't follow your interpretation of DABSYN as a specific circumstance under which an entry needs no explanation at all. DABSYN does say (where the disambiguated title is mentioned as a synonym). Also, what does that way mean - is it that Gambling in India is listed in the disambig page not as a synonym, but as something else (like a partial title match for Indian)? Jay ^(Talk) 13:48, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

DABSYN says is only talking about how to annotate some synonyms on a DAB page. It means, if the term is mentioned in the article as a synonym, you just list the term on the dab page without any further explanation:

Serving spoon may also refer to:

• Tablespoon (nothing further said here to explain the term)

It is not putting any requirements on what can be listed on a dab page. You keep mis-applying this. You are never going to move on unless you accept that DABSYM does not apply to this discussion. In this case, "Indian gaming" is not mentioned as a synonym in the article, so an annotation should be provided:

 • Gambling in India, gambling activities in the country of India

MB 14:10, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

I now get it that by specific circumstance you did mean where the disambiguated title is mentioned as a synonym, which is what I mentioned too. So there is no argument there. Jay (talk) 20:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree with MB's explanation here. I see nothing at DABSYN that suggests it's meant to be understood as the only circumstance in which synonyms can be mentioned on disambiguation pages. --BDD (talk) 18:02, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

We pulled the DABSYN thread too long, and left the other questions unanswered. Starting afresh below. Jay (talk) 20:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Mention vs Synonym

I started the previous post with DABSYN as it is the only page I found, that mentions "diambiguation", "synonym" and "mention" in the same breath. I didn't find anything corresponding at WP:DAB, so I had wanted to turn it around. What do we do when the disambiguated title is NOT mentioned as a synonym. The interpretation I got from MB is of annotating normally just as any other dab entry, but is this spelled out? What about verifiability since the onus of justifying the dab is on the target, and the target doesn't make a mention?

Which is why in the second post of the above thread, I brought up WP:WHENNOTCITE, which says citations are not required on dab pages, but also adds a condition that sourcing for the information given there should be done in the target articles. How is this important aspect missed out from the WP:DAB guideline? This is what I was attempting at WT:Disambiguation#Synonym disambiguations and mention. Jay (talk) 20:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)