Talk:Imperial Age (band)

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 13 October 2018 by reviewer Frayae (talk · contribs).

International vs Russian

Manuele di Ascenzo is a permanent member of Imperial Age and is Italian. Also, on the EU and US tours the band played with Tim Schaling (NL), Ryan Thomson (UK), Kublai Kapsalis (TR) and Jens Hendriks (NL). Please stop calling this band Russian - it is a rare example of a truly international Metal act. 95.12.124.189 (talk) 09:57, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A band is usually considered the nationality of the place where it was formed. That nationality rarely changes with new members. The defining sources are media observers, as usual—uninvolved WP:SECONDARY sources. If they say the band is international, then you can cite the media and call them international. Binksternet (talk) 14:22, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

that is not a problem, please take a look at several media sources calling the band international:

https://www.moshville.co.uk/video/2023/01/imperial-age-uk-tour-finally-kicks-off-next-week-new-video-out-today/

https://musicbordersradio.com/imperial-age-symphonic-metal-turkey/

https://mhf-mag.com/news/symphonic-metal-imperial-age-new-world-to-be-out-on-aug-27/

there are many more 95.12.113.138 (talk) 14:31, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see an author name for the self-published Wordpress mosheville source, so it fails WP:USERG as a blog. The musicbordersradio.com source seems better, naming Danny Abas as the author, and giving more details. However, the exact same text is presented by Keith Clement of mhf-mag.com, proving that the text was prepared not by these publications but by a public relations writer working for the band. Not a secondary source. Binksternet (talk) 14:44, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just dont have the time to search for all the sources... but anyway, why is it so important for you to apply a national tag to a band who clearly stated many times that they do not consider themselves belonging to a country or nationality, and actually do objectively fall under the definition of "international"? 95.12.113.138 (talk) 15:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I got a sense that your recent edits were promotional, especially this paragraph:

The band has gained international recognition for its independent success without record labels, extensive international touring and pandemic-era online shows, viewed by tens of thousands of people worldwide.

When I see promotional activity on Wikipedia, I remove it as much as possible.

Regarding the nationality of the band, The Telegraph wrote in 2020 "Russian band", and in 2022, the magazine Maximum Volume Music wrote "Imperial Age was one of the first Russian bands to publicly stand up against the war". These are uninvolved observers. Binksternet (talk) 17:28, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I understand where you see promotional content here, but all that is written is fact. However, I didn't come here to argue or to search a quote for my every word. If you dont like that paragraph - thats ok, no problem, leave it as you prefer...

My main point was about nationality, where I just think it doesn't make sense to attribute a national tag to a band that literally has people from all over the world, and, moreover, the leaders of which have left their country of origin in protest and publicly asked not to call them Russians and their band - Russian...

By tagging the band like this you are also alienating many people, who are getting a distorted perception - and thus, this can also be considered promoted content, albeit with a minus sign. Because today there is a big difference in perception between "Russian" and "Ex-Russian" - especially if we are talking about artists.

Why not write "a Turkish-based band of Russian origin"? That would be much closer to the objectie fact, than branding a multi-national lineup with one nationality (and why focus so much on nationality at all? you as an American should know that better).

The quotes you mention, they date from or mention events before the lineup changes... 95.12.113.138 (talk) 21:08, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia exists to summarize the literature about various topics. The published sources should be summarized in balance with their weight in the world, such that an item in The Telegraph will have a lot more weight than a blog post. If something is true about the topic but it hasn't been published by a reliable source, then that true thing is not needed on Wikipedia. I haven't seen the band "publicly" ask not to be labelled Russian, and even if they did, the uninvolved observers are still the defining sources. Binksternet (talk) 21:59, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]