Talk:Imam Munandar

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 15:36, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

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• ... that Imam Munandar once proposed to release prisoners to kill them? Source: [1]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Cocaine Bear (bear)
  • Comment: -

Created by Juxlos (talk). Self-nominated at 07:01, 2 December 2022 (UTC).

• Juxlos:
  • general: article is new enough and long enough.
  • policy: article is sourced and neutral. although the article covers a lot of negative aspects of munandar's life, he died in 1988 so is presumably not covered by wikipedia's blp policy. in addition, the jenkins source states that munandar was "a blunt and brutally direct Soeharto subordinate", so the article's tone appears to be accurate. earwig shows nothing of concern.
  • qpq: provided.
  • hooks: hook is under 200 characters, interesting, accurate, cited, and neutral. it does not appear to violate dyk's policy on avoiding "hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals" because munandar died in 1988 and the focus does not appear to be undue.
  • points outside of the dyk criteria:
    • i am assuming that the name of munandar's elementary school is italicized in the article because the name is in dutch, so i thought i might mention that mos:foreignitalic makes an exception for proper names, which are generally not italicized. i believe this exception is often ignored and rarely enforced, so whether or not you decide to keep the name italicized is fine with me.
    • the source cited for the statement that munandar "was a notoriously harsh talker, and had a tendency to scold his subordinates in public" appears to only support the date mentioned in the sentence before that statement. is the supporting passage perhaps on a different page in the book?
    • this may be an issue of personal style, but in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the "As governor" subsection, i felt that the use of a pronoun in "his relationship" and then munandar's name later in the sentence temporarily confused me into thinking that "Munandar" may have referred to someone else. perhaps replacing "his relationship" with "Munandar's relationship" and "Munandar became" with "he became" may resolve this, as this would move the mention of the name into the sentence's subject.
    • in the second sentence of the second paragraph of the "As governor" subsection, i think "president" could be capitalized since it appears to be used as a title. (in contrast, the earlier use of "future president" conforms with mos:jobtitles because "future" is a modifier.) also, the use of the present participle "being" seems unusual to me, since the request's rejection was not a notable characteristic of the request at the time it was made, but rather a reaction to it. would it be more appropriate to, for example, replace ", this request being" with "; this request was", or simply ", which was"?

alt0 approved. dying (talk) 22:59, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Juxlos and dying: I'm not sure I'm the biggest fan of a hook that not only hinges on the brutality of the anti-communist crackdowns, but seems to verge on making dark light of it? I know that it's punchy, but maybe we'd want to look for something else. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 13:58, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

theleekycauldron, i had actually wondered about the same thing when first coming across the hook, but after looking through some of the sources mentioned in the article, i thought it was appropriate, given that much that is written about munandar is rather negative in tone. one source acknowledges that writing so many unkind words about munandar may seem unwarranted, and then appears to struggle to come up with positive things to say about him. i was hoping for Juxlos to weigh in first, as he would have a much better understanding of munandar's life to propose an alternative hook, but here are two that i came up with, although neither currently appears in the article.

alt1: ... that Imam Munandar, who became the governor of Riau after his predecessor died of liver cancer, met the same fate eight years later?
alt2: ... that Imam Munandar, governor of the Indonesian province of Riau, wore Malay clothing on important days?

i am not sure if either is more appropriate, though at least they are different. the source for these hooks is the same as the one i linked above. dying (talk) 06:38, 21 December 2022 (UTC)