Talk:Illinois State University/Archive 1

Illinois State University
Motto	Gladly we Learn and Teach
Type	Public
Established	1857
President	Al Bowman
Academic staff	3,211
Undergraduates	17,878
Postgraduates	2,879
Location	Normal, Illinois, USA
Campus	Urban
colors	red and white
Mascot	Reggie Redbird
Website	www.ilstu.edu

This is an archive of past discussions about Illinois State University. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Uncategorized Discussions

I am a student at Illinois State University and am very interested in vegetarianism. I would like to contribute something to the article regarding the dining centers and vegetarian diets at Illinois State. I am not sure if I should add it to the residence halls section or make a new one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lsabram (talk • contribs) 22:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

what is the largest dorm then

Bancroft Hall at th US Naval Academy, 4,00+ midshipmen.

I want to put this in:

However, I can't figure out somewhere good to put it. Any help?

Infoboxes should always go at the top of the article. I moved it there. The page needs to be obviously expanded, so don't worry about the images being in the way or whatever. K1Bond007 05:50, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!

Scott Mitchell

Goes by the nickname: EZScotty

The least liked man in the entire world, actually. He is famous for insisting that trite phrases such as "Good gravy" and "Holy Guacamole" be used in academic conversation.

This is looking more and more suspicious. The user writes his own pages, then links to them from this one. He says to look for some ISU link that lists him, but I don't see what he's talking about. Then a brand new redlinked user turns up, whose very first "contribution" is to join this fray. This all adds up to self-promotion, obviously for commercial gain, which is against wiki policy. Wahkeenah 05:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

It is very odd that you are so against this addition. It almost seems like its personal to you. He is listed at this link http://www.alumni.ilstu.edu/about_us/notable_alumni/business.shtml right from the article itself as the 14th notable alumni. I do not think its right to reject an entry in Wiki because you don't like someone when the very school finds him notable to put on their own website. I simply added some business people (those who were CEO's from public companies) from the notable alumni page here because I felt the notables were not representing business but rather althletes and artists. You clearly did not have any problem with the 4 other CEO's that were added, but just this one.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregcox (talk • contribs) 01:43, 15 November 2006

I don't know who this guy is, I never heard of him, and the fact that someone (maybe you) posted an entry in ISU's "notable alumni" list doesn't mean that he's "notable" from the standpoint of wikipedia. I have asked an admin to look into this. As far as I know, there are rules against personal promotion, and that's what this looks like to me... an effort to expand this guy's business enterprise by writing about him here. And those 4 other CEO's might be on here just to "justify" putting your own guy here. We'll see what the admin has to say. Wahkeenah 07:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

as far as the notable alumns stuff goes I think it should be cut down even more. If we list Scott then why don't we go ahead and list EVERYONE on that page from ilstu.edu? Isn't it fair that there is a link that points to the ilstu.edu site that has Scott listed on it? The list of alumns on this site are far larger then most other college pages on wiki. I think it is time to trim them down. 12.34.246.39 12:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to say that I think it should be trimmed way down too. Mediocre athletes, struggling artists / actors, they just aren't that notable. Now if they make the hall of fame for their sport or are nominated for / receive an Oscar, then they are notable. In reality, its really too bad that good old ISU has turned out precious few truly notable people.— Preceding unsigned comment added by HiwayOne (talk • contribs) 11:34, 19 November 2006

Maybe because ISU turns out workers instead of politicians? The issue of "notability" seems to have to do with fame and/or fortune. If that Mitchell guy is in the "Fortune 500", maybe he could be considered notable. I'm not convinced that every actor or athlete that ever went to ISU is notable, but some of them are. It might depend on the "degree of fame" and/or fortune. Wahkeenah 18:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess maybe all that should be there is the link to ISU's notable page. If anybody is to be an authority on the issue, why not ISU itself
- It depends on where ISU got its information. Quite possibly, their Mitchell info came from the same guy that keeps trying to add it to this page. Wahkeenah 23:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Just seems like the University itself (without a supreme court hearing on the matter) would be a strong enough authority. In fact, now that I realize it, I am completely certain that I am absolutely correct. So be it. Thats final. It has been my pleasure to end the debate.
    - His personal vanity article was already deleted, following discussion about it. Meanwhile, just because ISU regards someone as "notable" does not mean they qualify as "notable" in wikipedia. Wahkeenah 18:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
      - I agree. If the University deems the person noteworthy, but regular disagreement arises on wikipedia, as is the case, I also suggest we cut out the entire list of notable alumni aside from the link to Illinois State's online listing of such.
he is a God among men

Third Tier

You are correct in saying that, below the first tier, universities are listed alphabetically. Therefore, for all intents and purposes, all third tier are tied with one another, as are all second tier with each other, etc. As U of I is the only first tier public school in the state, only it ranks higher. Their are no second tier universities in the state, and the only other third tier is SIUC, which is therefore, for all intents and purposes, tied with ISU, therefore, there is no other school in the state above ISU besides U of I. I would have no problem with SIUC making the same claim, and I may have placed a similar statement there as well. If you don't like the phrasing, go ahead and change it, but it is not untrue.HuskyHuskie 04:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Service Fraternities

Alpha Phi Omega is a Service Fraternity (and a co-ed one at that), not a Service Sorority... I updated listing under Greek Life

Illinois State University Bus System

Illinois State University Bus System has been tagged as orphaned and not notable for quite some time now. Is there any interest in improving it? It will probably be deleted if it isn't improved by adding some references etc.Ga rr ie 04:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Paintball?

Hey, come on... this is a huge sport. It's right up there with Ultimate Frisbee. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I was actually somewhat hesitant to revert. Obviously it doesn't belong here, but would it belong at Illinois State Redbirds? Would it belong somewhere else? I'm actually stuck regarding notability of this. Tool2Die4 (talk) 19:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Dress code for marketing students

http://www.universitybusiness.com/newssummary.aspx?news_date=2007-08-30&news_id=14142#top

Where does this belong? I know the university has a dress code for marketing classes, but where should I put this? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Demographics?

Where is the citation for the demographics? I can't find any evidence to verify the 26.2 ACT score. I remember reading an article in the Vidette about the ACT being slightly above 24, but never as high as 26.2. If this is correct, and i hope it is, please include some sort of citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.128.101 (talk) 08:32, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Famous alumni include Nelsan Ellis of HBO's True Blood

It appears that a Nelsan Ellis did compete for ISU in the NFA National Championship in 1999, but there is no evidence that this is the actor of True Blood fame, he is from Illinois but the only college listed in his Bio is Julliard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.87.196.226 (talk) 20:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

nevermind http://www.trueblood-online.com/cast-crew/nelsan-ellis-lafayette/nelsan-ellis-confirms-he-appears-in-season-2/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.87.196.226 (talk) 20:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Poor opening section

I've got some issues with the content of the opening paragraph. It reads, in its entirety, as follows:

Illinois State University, commonly referred to as ISU is a public university located in the town of Normal. ISU is recognized in the U.S. News & World Report rankings as a "National University," which grants a variety of doctoral degrees and strongly emphasizes research. ISU's was ranked 156 in the 2011 US News ratings; among public universities in Illinois, only two schools, both from the University of Illinois system, rank higher. Illinois State University was most recently ranked the 95th best university by Kiplinger's Personal Finance Magazine in the January 2011 issue. It is also ranked as the 123rd best university in the U.S. by the Washington Monthly.

Here's what I see:

In this, the opening paragraph, we are fed only one flavor of content: rankings--three of them! I'm happy for ISU that it is proud of it's rankings--good for them. But it makes a shitty opening paragraph. We're supposed to be developing interest in the article in the lead section, people, and only accountants and actuaries would like this drivel. It might be okay to include one (I'd recommend the most famous, US News), but even that could wait until later in the lead section.
Oh, we also get the insightful observation that Illinois State is commonly referred to as "ISU". In fact, this is so noteworthy that it is actually the very first thing we learn about it! One problem: DUH!!!! 90%+ of ALL American universities with three word names go by their initials! NIU, SIU, WIU, EIU in Illinois, UNF, USF, UCF, UWF, in Florida, and so forth. And guess what, ISU is also used by Indiana State University, Iowa State University, and Idaho State University. So spare us your 10-year old revelations, okay?
Basically, there's nothing of interest in this opening, nothing that can't be said of dozens of other schools (oh, except for the fact that it's located in the hilariously named town of "Normal". Leave that in there).

I'm going to do you nice people a favor and fix this up. HuskyHuskie (talk) 21:09, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Good idea. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:16, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Misleading Content

I read the opening and saw "Illinois State University was most recently ranked the 95th best university by Kiplinger's Personal Finance Magazine in the January 2011 issue." So I clicked on the article to find out more, and instead I learned that the article was in reality Kiplinger's Best Values in Public Colleges. So a) this was only the best value, not the "best university", and b) these was not even the best values of universities at large, only public universities (though they tend to have the best value, at least for in-state). No wonder the reference on the wikipedia page just referred to the source as "Kiplinger's Personal Finance Magazine" rather than noting the title. And moreover, it was presented between publications ranking the schools themselves without a single mention that it was measuring value, not "best colleges" (as US News describes theirs). I changed it, but I did not check read this article after the opening to see if this kind of thing continued. We need to remember that the purpose of wikipedia is to inform people, not leave them with inaccurate impression. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Downthatroad (talk • contribs) 11:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Redundancy in rankings section

One or more editors insists that the rankings section of this article include a closing sentence reiterating that the university is included in ranking systems previously described in detail in the section (the current wording is "ranked among the combined top private and public universities in America."). However, this editor or these editors haven't done much to explain why this redundancy is necessary. Does anyone have any insight into this or an opinion on whether this sentence needs to be included?

Personally, it strikes me not only as redundant but it also seems a bit POVish to try to make something more out of these rankings. The current version of the article notes that the university is ranked #255 out of 281 national universities in the US by Washington Monthly and #403 out of 650 colleges and universities by Forbes. Those aren't exactly stellar rankings so it seems to be stretching things a bit to try to paint them as being more positive than they are by stressing that the university is merely included in the ranking systems (which, again, is self-evident). ElKevbo (talk) 18:14, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

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Edit war to replace Carnegie Basic Classification in lede with NSF award search results

An unregistered editor is insisting on replacing the university's Carnegie Basic Classification in the lede with a classification that he or she has derived from a search of NSF awards. This is clearly original research. Moreover, it's silly to claim that a search of NSF awards is a better source for classifying an institution than the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education, the most well known and respected system for classifying colleges and universities in the United States. ElKevbo (talk) 03:03, 1 April 2021 (UTC)