Talk:Ilkhanate/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comment

WAS ONE OF THE FOUR DIVISIONS WITHIN THE MONGOL EMPIRE.

“centered in the land of Persia and included present-day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan and western Pakistan”

This sentence gives the impression that “Persia” was cut into pieces and nations of Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan emerged from it. This is a mistake. Iran existed at the time and it did not emerge after Persia was divided. IRAN IS PERSIA.

Modern day nations of Iraq and Afghanistan did emerge after they were separated from Persia and they did not exist (at least not as independent nations) before but this is not the case for Iran since Persia is just a different name for Iran (westerners used to call it Persia while natives have been calling it Iran for the past 2000 years)

I changed it. Gol 23:57, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Afghanistan

It is false to say that Iran existed before 1935. The name Iran was not recognized by any international community before 1935. Not even its next door neighbors. The Afghans have been calling their native land as "Afghanistan" (land of the Afghans) for ages, but the name Afghanistan came into existence since the middle of the 18th century, according to the Encyclopaedia of Islam.

“ Afghānistān has borne that name only since the middle of the 18th century, when the supremacy of the Afghan race (Pashtuns) became assured: previously various districts bore distinct apellations, but the country was not a definite political unit, and its component parts were not bound together by any identity of race or language. The earlier meaning of the word was simply “the land of the Afghans”, a limited territory which did not include many parts of the present state but did comprise large districts now either independent or within the boundary of Pakistan. ”

In the early 1800s...the British wrote down the name "Afghanland" (refering to Afghanistan) in an agreement between Persians, Afghans and British to end the war between Persia and Afghanistan in 1938. Another point I like to make is that Afghanistan was not part of Persia (Iran) as a whole...only smaller western area...about 15% of total present-day Afghanistan was part of Persian (Iranian) Safavid empire. The northern section was ruled by Uzbeks, while most of the larger area (southeast) was ruled by Moghul Empire or self ruled by the Pashtuns. Before that...Afghanistan was ruled by Timur...and before that Mongolian Empire...and before that...Afghanistan was the center (present day Ghor district, Afghanistan) of Ghori Empire, and before that Afghanistan was the center (Ghazni, Afghanistan) Ghaznavid Empire. ~Nisar NisarKand 11:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

References

new Map!!

i believe this map is more accurate and better for the article... should we replace it or not???

File:Ilkhanate 1256–1353.PNG

Ilkhanate Dynasty

ps: ill be replacing it within 3 days if no one is really bothered to answer... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arab League (talk • contribs) 22:53, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Franco-Mongol alliance

If there are concerns about the wording of the alliance-related information in this article, I would appreciate if they could be brought up at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Franco-Mongol alliance, rather than edit-warring about it here. --Elonka 22:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

(update) The mediation is closed, the dispute has moved to arbitration. --Elonka 18:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Is it really relevant to write Chinese names for places of the khanate?

I don't think that Chinese names are relevant to this article. Chinese were not the native people of this khanate. They were subjects to Yuan Dynasty only. --GenuineMongol (talk) 14:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

They used chinese seals on some of their letters, like here and here, but unless someone provides evidence to the contrary, I don't think Chinese was commonly used by the population or the elites of this khanate. would be nice to have the mongolian form, though, if we can find out what designation the Ilkhans used for their domain. Yaan (talk) 22:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

The seal used by Ghazan in 1302 is exactly the one used by Arghun in 1289 (here), with Chinese characters "輔國安民之寶". The seal used by Oljeitu in 1305 reads "真命皇帝和顺萬夷之寶", where "真命皇帝" ("Mandate of Heaven Emperor") is a typical usage referring to Emperor of China.--207.112.34.108 (talk) 02:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

If the seals ("borrowed" from the Yuan Dynasty?) are the only connection to China, then those should be considered a curiosity, especially since the letters as such are written in Mongolian script. It doesn't mean that Chinese language names have any relevance to the topic otherwise. --Latebird (talk) 07:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You probably misunderstood my point. I actually agree with Yaan's reply above, but just added a few extra sentences explaining the meaning of the text in the seals.--207.112.34.108 (talk) 07:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Berke was Hulagu's enemy not Batu --Enerelt (talk) 03:33, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Please help with Mongol/Tatar invasions articles

Can you please discuss/help, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mongol_Empire#Excellent_article_and_general_mongol_invasion_conquest_articles 97.118.116.250 (talk) 12:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Hulagu / Hulegu

I've changed the spelling of the Ilkhan's name back to Hulagu, since this is the spelling used at the article on him, Hulagu Khan. If there's disagreement about which is the most common spelling, the best thing to do is to handle it at the Hulagu Khan article, perhaps by starting a discussion on the talkpage and seeking consensus for a page move. --Elonka 16:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Textiles

Lampas with phoenix, silk and gold, Iran or Irak, 14th century.

Lampas with phoenix, silk and gold, Iran or Irak, 14th century. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 15:45, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Lampas with rabbits, silk and gold, Iran or Irak, 14th century.

Lampas with rabbits, silk and gold, Iran or Irak, 14th century. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 15:53, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

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Were Ilkhanids not Persian?

The Seljuk empire was created by Turkish speaking nomads but they were influenced by Persian culture, so they are called Turco-Persian.

The Ilkhanid khanate was created by Mongol nomads but they accepted Islam and Persian culture, so why are they not called Mongol-Persian?

The Seljuk and Ilkhanid empire has no difference, so they should have been named the same way. But the difference is : nobody speaks Mongolian today in Iran.

But at least 25% of the population of Iran speaks Turkish today. But according to Wikipedia Turkic nomads are considered Persian but Mongols are always Mongols? Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonTiger23 (talk • contribs) 18:51, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

"Turco-Persian" is an old descriptive which relates to the military, in which peoples of Iran were conscripted under Turkic commanders - the Seljuks were Turks, not Persian.104.169.47.12 (talk) 05:47, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Interesting. I have never heard of Mongol-Persian. Unlike other conquest nations in Iran, the Mongols preserved their identity for a while and very quickly assimilated into Persian society surrounding them, totally losing their origin. --Enerelt (talk) 11:55, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Further to my previous comment, Hulegu had more than 10 wives but their children's major descendants all died or killed during the purge of internal conflict between Mongols. By 1335, there had been only Arpa from the House Qasar left to succeed the late khan. Abu Said nominated him to be his successor.--Enerelt (talk) 02:35, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

no mention of the destruction caused in the area of modern Iraq?

This article does a disservice to the incredible destruction inflicted upon the area of Iraq. Besides the tragic loss to civilization of medieval Baghdad, the Mongol conquests included the destruction of the irrigation canals, the after effects of which are still seen in Iraq today . . . 104.169.47.12 (talk) 05:51, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

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