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Talk:Ice hockey at the 2014 Winter Olympics – Men's qualification

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norway/austria

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I have no issue with partial results, but please do not elevate teams on the table before they have secured that position: If Ger, Rus, and USA win, and Nor loses, Norway remains behind Slovakia. Also Austria is listed as eliminated because they can acheive a maximum of 2485 points by the end of of 2012, the minimum value (at this point) for 9th place is norway with 2770.18abruce (talk) 12:24, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If I'm not mistaken, the 9th place minimum is 2780, not 2770. Norway is in 9th with 1960, and they'll be in the Championship Division next year, which means worst case scenario is they finish in 16th place, which is 820 points. 1960+820=2780. MrArticleOne (talk) 21:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
you are both right!! check the date the first one was posted perhaps. at the time it was posted slovakia was still ahead (norway could still achieve 750 which would put them ten behind with 1930), however if slovakia finished last in 2012 and ended up with 2760, the worst norway could finish would be 15th and get 2770. The worst possible value is now shared by Slovakia and Norway with 2780. To clinch a spot (cannot possibly finish as low as 10th) a nation would need to pass 3090. So no one can clinch this year. And don't calculate how many points 10th place can still get, you need to know if a nation can be passed by nine different nations by the end of 2012.174.92.104.76 (talk) 23:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Status of host

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Since there was a lot of discussion (and argument) last time on whether Canada was automatically qualified as host, I thought I would leave a pre-emptive note on the subject. The IIHF made a point of indicating that the Russian women's team received a berth as host, but did not say so for the men's. There is no doubt that they will qualify, but to be accurate, it should continue to be stated that they need to follow the same qualification process as the other national men's teams. In addition, this article discusses what will happen with the South Korean hockey teams. Simply, it is not decided (by the IOC or IIHF) whether they will be participants, and that should prove that there is no set rule for host qualification. Just hoping to head off a lot of unnecessary edits and reverts.18abruce (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Qualified teams

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Sweden has already qualified as someone else has pointed out. They can actually at worst finish 5th in their group and 10th overall in the 2012 IIHF World championships. Here's the scenario showing why:

Current standing is

  • Swe 12
  • Rus 9
  • Lat 6
  • Cze 5
  • Nor 4
  • Ger 3
  • Ita 2
  • Den 1

Sweden has already beaten Italy, since they only have 3 games left and therefore cannot get more than 11 points. To get a "worst rank scenario" for Sweden, we can therefore start with having Sweden lose all remaining games, and having Italy lose all their games left after that. This gives the following standing:

  • Rus 15
  • Swe 12
  • Lat 9
  • Cze 8
  • Ita 5
  • Nor 4
  • Ger 3
  • Den 1

Then Russia is ahead of Sweden, so they can lose their remaining games to ensure other teams get as many points as possible.

  • Rus 15
  • Swe 12
  • Cze 11
  • Lat 9
  • Ita 5
  • Den 4
  • Nor 4
  • Ger 3

This leaves 7 games left. Cze needs at least 1 point to equal or beat Sweden, Lat at least 3. Norway/Denmark need at least 8 each, and Germany need 9.

The problem is, Norway, Denmark and Germany are all meeting each other, and no team can afford to lose more than 1 point of the 9 they have left to play for. Therefore, only one of those three teams can beat Sweden. This means that Sweden can at worst finish 5th in the group after Russia, Czech republic, Latvia and one of Norway, Denmark and Germany. - Lejman (talk) 22:12, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Total IIHF Ranking points projections

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The minimum ranking points for the IIHF teams based on the 2012 WC are shown in italics, which is good as it leaves less risk for people to mistake them for final rankings. The total sums are shown in bold though and are more likely to be mistaken. Is there any way to write in bold italics so people can (more easily) see that they're temporary rankings? - Lejman (talk) 22:25, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any reason to have the table anymore? The rest of the WC tourney has no bearing on qualification. TerminalPreppie (talk) 13:08, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It determines the seeding for the olympics, so is helpful. Also, why get rid of it at all if it provides a graphic representation of why the countries are ranked where they are. Just my opinion.18abruce (talk) 14:54, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just going by Ice hockey at the 2010 Winter Olympics – Men's qualification. No mention of seeding there. TerminalPreppie (talk) 15:10, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean, it is not explicit, perhaps it should be. I think at the very least it is important to leave it up here until the sourced ranking list, and/or the wikipedia ranking page are updated with the 2012 totals, otherwise you are left with no way of showing how we know who is qualified.18abruce (talk) 15:46, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Updates

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Only BLR/KAZ can finish last in group H, and only ITA/DEN can finish last in group S. Other teams points have been updated to reflect this. SVK can at worst finish 13th, as if they finish 7th in their group they will still beat the 7th ranked team in the other group. I think CZE can finish at worst 5th in their group, but I'll double check my calculations. Lejman (talk) 21:42, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cze can indeed finish 5th at worst. Something worth noting is that neither Denmark or Belarus can directly qualify, but both can still lead their qualifying groups, so I haven't colored them. Lejman (talk) 00:31, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is fine to colour them, the yellow for qualifying groups seems a little redundant to me, not sure why I added it.18abruce (talk) 02:45, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

usa clinch explanation

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usa has clinched qf berth at worlds, so only one of sui, or svk can reach qf, along with nor and ger, so the highest possible total for 10th is now 2950 (switzerland)18abruce (talk) 15:33, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, although Nor and GER can't both qualify (it's one or the other). So max points now is with Lat, Svk and Nor in semi-finals, Germany as 9th and Switzerland 10th, putting Switzerland at 2930 points. USA is qualified for Olympics :D If Nor, Ger, Svk and/or Swi reach quarter-finals they will qualify. - Lejman (talk) 15:42, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
right, I thought initially that a three way tie with ger, nor, and czech at 11 points could render czech 5th, (head-to-head ger 5pts, nor 2pts, czech 2pts) but the rules read that once ger is given (in this case) third, norway and czech tie breaker would start from rule 1 again and the czechs overtime win would decide 4th.18abruce (talk) 16:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

switzerland/germany for 9th

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I know the swiss would have to lose by 15 goals, but leave it alone until the game is over please.18abruce (talk) 18:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Switzerland 11th on WC 2012

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I think, Switzerland final ranking is eleventh place. They have better score than Latvia but were at 6th place in their group, while Latvia 5th. 1)Position 2)Points 3)Score 4)Goals scored 5)IIHF ranking. f. e. look at 2008 IIHF WC, where CZE was 5th, while USA 6th (with better score, but worse position. After both teams were defeated in quarterfinals). And look at rules for Vancouver 2010 preliminary table too. --CZMajkl (talk) 19:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

yes switzerland could only finish 11th or 12th before their game started, and the only comparison that mattered was how they compared to germany, who could also only finish 11th or 12th depending on the outcome of switzerlands game. that outcome also directly affected which one of them would finish 9th or 10th in the IIHF rankings, now done, but was being edited before the swiss usa game finished.18abruce (talk) 19:47, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Other qualifying tourneys

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The IIHF recently released more detail of the other qualifiers here: http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/olympics.html TerminalPreppie (talk) 17:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

that link was already in the article, thanks for updating the page when it clarified the ambiguous info, perhaps find an appropriate place to reintroduce it.18abruce (talk) 00:46, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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