Talk:Ibuki (Street Fighter)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Bridies (talk · contribs) 15:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't normally do character articles, so this might be a total disaster; but the article seems close enough and the backlog is getting ridiculous, so here goes... bridies (talk) 15:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Review

1. *I've copy edited most of the article. Just the plot (In video games) section needs some work before I do it: the first 2 or 3 paragraphs mainly are too informal and chatty; and she's described seemingly as a real person throughout much of this section. Needs to be cooler and more detached.
There's some minor citation inconsistency. Assuming you're going for the standard italicisation of print sources and non-italicisation of websites: Askmen.com should presumably be de-italicised as a website-only (it's not italicised in the prose anyway). GamePro, while it had a web version, was also a print magazine and I think should be italicised. There may be a few other examples of this.
2. Pending... Just one thing so far:
Quick concern regarding this direct quote from the character design section: "certainly the reason enough, but ..." That seems like it should just say "certainly reason enough", maybe double check the source. Also, I'm guessing the ... is added by an editor and signifies that two parts from the source have been merged in to one quote; assuming this is the case, it should be [...]
3. ~~Pending, no obvious concerns~~
Is there a source for: "Her personality is of a "valley girl"-ish type"? Just going by the Wiki article, "Valley girl" seems to refer to white women in 1980s suburban Los Angeles, which doesn't seem obviously relevant to a current Japanese ninja-schoolgirl.
~~Oro "seems to act quite lecherous around her". Is there a source for this, and what does it say? I'm guessing the print source at the end of the paragraph, which I obviously can't read.~~
"Geki from the original Street Fighter game was widely rumoured to be her father". What does this mean exactly? Real-life commentators spread rumours about her fictional father? This also needs rewritten as the paraphrasing is too close to the source, and the source doesn't say "widely".
4. Neutral
5. Stable
6. I think the comic book cover is not needed and doesn't meet the NFCC. Basically because she looks the same in that as she does in the one beside the lead, and so nothing new is illustrated. I think one can argue that the first two are necessary to illustrate her appearance contrasting a young girl "of the current times" with "this old-time ninja look". But if there's to be a 3rd image (pushing it, but not out of the question, IMO) it has to show something new, maybe a screen shot showing her in action, and something that can't be described well in words. bridies (talk) 16:47, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'm fine with the images now. I'll finish up the other stuff in a day or two. bridies (talk) 12:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GamePro was a company, and it's not from their magazine. Comic book pictures (covers, panels) have extremely liberal use licenses. --Niemti (talk) 17:35, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand what you mean by "extremely liberal use licenses"? I'll get a 2nd opinion if you like. bridies (talk) 01:46, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Non-free comic]

No "if" or "but". The pic is illustrating both "the periodical comic book series of which this issue is a part" and "the copyrighted comic book character(s) or group(s) on the cover of the issue in question". --Niemti (talk) 05:21, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's not a license, just an information template (there is no license, since it's copyrighted). The image still has to meet the WP:NFCC, which it doesn't: Multiple items of non-free content are not used if one item can convey equivalent significant information.. This item shows the same thing as the one in the lead: same costume, same tone, same sidekick. bridies (talk) 05:49, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's illustrating the comic book series (issue 1) and also her being "sassy, mischievous, and oh so girlish" (etc.). But #3 regular shows her schoolgirl costume, if you insist so. --Niemti (talk) 06:15, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, you can see how liberal it is by just comparing it with

[Non-free film screenshot]

for example. (Comic images have nothing "limited" about them, and no need to be used for "critical commentary and discussion", and can be used to illustrate characters, or even just "the scene or storyline depicted".) --Niemti (talk) 06:17, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd reiterate that these things are just Wikipedia tags, not copyright law in-a-nutshell. Taken in isolation (i.e if we were discussing a single image only), these would be fair points. But the problem is that you have 3 non-free images in this article, and two of them show almost the exact same thing. It thus violates the non-free content criterion that I quoted. This article doesn't discuss the comic, it discusses the character, and in terms of the character the images are very similar. And in any case, a layman doesn't need an image to understand what a comic book is, or that she's been featured on a cover. bridies (talk) 06:52, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"It's illustrating the comic book series (issue 1) and also her being "sassy, mischievous, and oh so girlish" (etc.). But #3 regular shows her schoolgirl costume, if you insist so. --Niemti (talk) 06:15, 23 September 2012 (UTC)" (#4 also shows the Gekis, but it's her in a fighting pose.) --Niemti (talk) 08:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested a 3rd opinion here: Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations#Non-free images in video game character GANs. bridies (talk) 07:22, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Check now. --Niemti (talk) 11:36, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Coming from GAN talk to note that, with regards to the duality image, the caption should be shortened. I do not particularly think these sorts of long captions are suitable for a GA. You are just trying to note how the comic series sought to illustrate the contrast in the character's life so there is no need for anything so lengthy.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 20:26, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Back to the prose. I started copy editing the In video games section, but some of the info in the first 2 paragraphs is pretty much duplicate: that she's from a village of ninjas (I've just trimmed the second mention of this), that she's fascinated by pop stars, and that she's a school girl. Also, first it says she's "a bit carefree", then it says "she resents her lot in life" which seems contradictory. I'm guessing it should say that she wants to me more carefree, and more schoolgirl and less ninja. But I'll let you figure out how to present this info best. bridies (talk) 11:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The newest official bio (SSFIV/SFxT) sez: "Trained from infancy to become a ninja. Although she carries out her duties, in reality she dreams of living a normal, high school girl life. She has a fascination with pop idols, but when she is tasked with a responsibility, she is always reliable." <- adjust to this. (That's just the basics of the character, of course.) --Niemti (talk) 14:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Valley Girl - I think it's rather about Kat Steel's voice accent. Geki rumores are referenced (as rumors). Oro interactions are of that type: [1] --Niemti (talk) 12:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a source which uses the word "lecherous" or similar? We can't say "seems" anything based on the primary source. bridies (talk) 02:37, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[2][3] etc. --Niemti (talk) 05:57, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A reliable one that we can use...? bridies (talk) 01:29, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly it's more of Oro thing so it doesn't even matter. --Niemti (talk) 02:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~I think the only outstanding issue is the use of 1 or 2 unreliable sources. Definitely Unseen64, which is just an amateur blog ([4], [5]) and needs replaced.~~ bridies (talk) 17:04, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.lion-gv.com/v09/Portfolio/game-design/street_fighter_iv/sf4-concept-doc.pdf ("The original cast of twelve is supplemented by Sakura, Killer Bee (before she became Cammy), the head student at Ibuki’s ninja village, a Chinese bodyguard, and the mysterious Akuma.") --Niemti (talk) 21:04, 1 October 2012 (UTC) Pass You should probably change the caption per Masem and The Devil's Advocate, but personally I have no opinion on this. bridies (talk) 01:34, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]