Talk:I Pity the Poor Immigrant

I Pity the Poor Immigrant has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: August 31, 2022. (Reviewed version).

A fact from I Pity the Poor Immigrant appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 August 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Bob Dylan's song "I Pity the Poor Immigrant" uses phrases from the Book of Leviticus?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/I Pity the Poor Immigrant.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Evrik (talk) 20:55, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Bob Dylan's song "I Pity the Poor Immigrant" uses phrases from the Book of Leviticus? Source: Williams, Paul (2004) . Bob Dylan, performing artist: the early years, 1960–1973 pp.245-246.
- ALT1: ... that the tune for Bob Dylan's song "I Pity the Poor Immigrant" was based on the traditional folk song "Come All Ye Tramps And Hawkers"? Source: McKay, Ron (May 16, 2021) "Bard debt: Bob Dylan and Scotland" Sunday Herald
- ALT2: ... that Bob Dylan's recorded ten takes of "I Pity the Poor Immigrant" on November 6, 1967, the last of which appeared on his album John Wesley Harding? Source: Bjorner, Olof (October 18, 2020). "2nd John Wesley Harding session, 6 November 1967"
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/WMXX-FM
- Comment: Any ideas for ALT hooks gratefully welcomed.

Created by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Self-nominated at 08:44, 21 July 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

Article is long enough, new and well sourced. (Nice job @BennyOnTheLoose:!). Earwig is freaking out but all the quotations used are properly attributed. AGF on ALT2 because I wasn't able to access that source, but I personally prefer ALT0 and ALT1 anyway. BuySomeApples (talk) 03:36, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Girl of the North Country

Wonder if I pity the poor immigrant was part of that musical? 114.72.47.174 (talk) 03:26, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:I Pity the Poor Immigrant/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ippantekina (talk · contribs) 01:17, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Will review this within a week. Ippantekina (talk) 01:17, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"and learned tunes, including "Come All Ye Tramps And Hawkers" and "Paddy West" which he used in composing "I Pity the Poor Immigrant" " what do we mean by "used"? Do we mean "sampled" or as in "used as reference points"?
- My understanding is that he basically used the same tune; in his early works, Dylan quite frequently took tunes and wrote new words. (See e.g. List of Bob Dylan songs based on earlier tunes, or comments on early songs at to Bob Dylan's Many Influences (NYT) which show how he used or adapted traditional tunes. I think "used" is OK but let me know if you have a better way to phrase this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:03, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I guess it was common practice for songwriters back in the day to write new lyrics to folk melodies; that partly explains why a Top-40 admirer like me did not get it. Perhaps "adapted" or "used the melody" would add more context? Ippantekina (talk) 09:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone for "adapted" - I know for other songs he would change the tempo and other aspects of the folk tunes, so I think this fits better than "used". Thanks. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is this source reliable?
- Bjorner's site was discussed at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Bob Dylan/archive3, which resulted in a keep of Bob Dylan as featured, but that was in 2008. I'll have a look at other on-wiki discussions and off-wiki resources and respond more fully soon. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:40, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Bjorner has published quite a few books, listed at Olof Björner, and this information formed the basis of the site. Paul Williams lists the books as a "key resource" for his Bob Dylan, Performing Artist books (e.g. vol2, p.367). In The Bob Dylan Encyclopedia, Michael Gray says of the site "The detail is extraordinary, and the level of accuracy phenomenal... truly a gigantic undertaking, maintained to a very high standard indeed." (p.49). Bjorner is also used as a source by Trager; Margotin & Guedson; Clinton Heylin (it's one of just three sites listed in the long list of sources for The Double Life of Bob Dylan: Volume I: 1941–1966 A Restless, Hungry Feeling; and Sean Wilentz (Bob Dylan In America). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:03, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Similar query for this source
- I sought a consensus at RSN here - although there was only one other participant, hopefully I made a decent case there. Let me know what you think. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:30, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The article is overall well-written and well-researched.

Putting this On hold for seven days. Ippantekina (talk) 15:16, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the review, Ippantekina. I've replied above. Let me know if anything else is needed. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:03, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@BennyOnTheLoose: I have one minor concern regarding the word "used" as above. Bjorner as a source appears fine. I looked into the discussion regarding Searching for a Gem and it also appears fine, at least for a GA. Ippantekina (talk) 09:24, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ippantekina:. Thank you. I've made a further change as noted above. Let me know if more is needed. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Passing. Great work! Ippantekina (talk) 09:55, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]