Talk:Hymnwriter

Composers Start‑class

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Composers, a group of editors writing and developing biographical articles about composers of all eras and styles. The project discussion page is the place to talk about technical and editorial issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!ComposersWikipedia:WikiProject ComposersTemplate:WikiProject ComposersComposers articles
Start	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.

Christian music High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christian music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christian music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Christian musicWikipedia:WikiProject Christian musicTemplate:WikiProject Christian musicChristian music articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Songs

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles

Occupations (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Occupations, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.OccupationsWikipedia:WikiProject OccupationsTemplate:WikiProject OccupationsOccupations articles

It is requested that an image or photograph of Hymnwriter be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

What is this?

@Hymnodist.2004: Even if there were a reliable source that used this term, vagueness in the definition of hymn makes the question of who these people are even more vague. I don't think this article is precise enough to serve any purpose on Wikipedia.

Definitions of hymnodist in online dictionaries include "one who studies hymns", "one who writes commentary to accompany hymns", and (rarely) "onevwho sings hymns". Even if kept, and kthere is something to be said, the name needs to be changed. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:30, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Not only does the term "hymnodist" have too much ambiguity, it is also unknown in the UK. I came across this article after it (or its "hymnist" redirect) was being applied inaccurately to articles about UK hymn-text writers.

We already have articles:

Hymn
Hymn tune
Hymnology, for the study of texts, tunes and their use
Hymn writer, currently redirecting to "hymn" (which confuses the writer with the thing written)
Hymnwriter (no space) redirecting to this "hymnodist"

The majority of practising hymnwriters (I'm one in real life) would not call themselves hymnologists (academics); similarly many brilliant hymnologists would never claim to be hymnwriters (practitioners).

It could well be argued that we need the article hymnology (academic study) to be expanded. And that we need a complementary article "hymn writing" (compare screenwriting) and perhaps "hymnwriter" (compare screenwriter). But I'm not a fan of this unusual, poorly-defined and regionally-limited (USA only?) term "hymnist".

I propose, initially at least, that this article, whose current content is about writers, be renamed "hymnwriter" (likewise occurrences of the term within it).

Feline Hymnic (talk) 21:25, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hymnodist.2004 and Arthur Rubin: There being no response, I have redone Hymn writer (with a space) to match Hymnwriter (no space) so they are at least consistent.

Is everyone happy that we rename this "Hymnodist" article to "Hymnwriter"? If there is still no response during the next couple of weeks (early-mid September) then I'll assume that everyone is content for this to proceed. Feline Hymnic (talk) 21:01, 25 August 2018 (UTC)§[reply]

Fine with me. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:33, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I submitted the rename request a few minutes ago and it has been done. Feline Hymnic (talk) 12:16, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Be aware that the technical request has been reverted. To gain consensus for another move, please follow the instructions at WP:RM to open a formal move discussion. Thanks. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 14:52, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Anome and Frayae: We had achieved consensus, over a period of nearly two months, to rename the article to "Hymnwriter". I put in the request this morning and User:‎Frayae kindly implemented it. I began to edit the article to change the principle term to be "hymnwriter" (rather than "hymnodist").

But I see that User:The Anome reverted the move. I would be grateful if you would explain this reversion-after-consensus. Can we please move it, as agreed, to "Hymnwriter" (or "Hymn writer). (Or give clear reasoning for not doing so.) Feline Hymnic (talk) 16:16, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi -- my reverting the move was a mistake: I should have seen the discussion here first. I will now revert my error. -- The Anome (talk) 21:40, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Anome: Just realised I forgot to acknowledge and thank you for that revert. Thank you. Feline Hymnic (talk) 00:11, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cite for the word "hymnodist"

I've found an actual cite for the use of the word "hymnodist" to mean "hymn writer": https://www.jstor.org/stable/25011311?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

Comparing the use of this vs. "hymn writer", it's clear that "hymn writer" is overwhelmingly more popular: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=hymnodist%2C+hymn+writer&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Chymnodist%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Chymn%20writer%3B%2Cc0

Conclusions:

"Hymnodist" is a real usage, and not a neologism
"Hymn writer" means the same thing, and is by far the more common usage

-- The Anome (talk) 09:16, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that research. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 13:27, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]