Talk:Hungarian names

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Which names are equivalent to English? Which are masculine and feminine?

This page has a lot of good information, but I actually came here looking to learn about Hungarian given names (which are equivalent to which English names, which are masculine, which are feminine, etc.) and didn't find much. Might I suggest that someone who already knows about this stuff write a section on such questions? --Iustinus 15:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See hu:Kategória:Magyar utónevek. Férfinév means masculine name, Női név means feminine name. Cheers, SyP 18:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will add a section. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:27, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Official List

Does anybody know where to find the official list of names recognized by the magyar government mentioned in the article? --151.51.8.205 (talk) 09:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See Official Hungarian name list in alphabetical order or see Hungarian given name inventory.

KEY: férfinév or férfi név means male name, női név means female name, becenév means nickname. Browse around. Be aware that some ancient "imported" names from Latin, Jew, German, Slavic languages had been magyarized but there are several names with Eastern/ancient Hungarian origins which has no equivalent in the Western languages.

And note that an odd regulation applies to official name approvals: the written form of the name shall follow the Hungarian pronunciation. For example, if you'd like to give the name Jessica to your baby, you can do it but this shall (and will) be written (in every official registration) as Dzsesszika (which sounds exactly as Jessica when pronounced in Hungarian but could be hardly recognized when read by a Westerner). Hope this helps. -- Scorpion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.120.110.188 (talk) 17:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Orthography

To say the sound 'C' is written as 'CZ' makes no sense at all. How is someone reading it here going to know what 'C' sounds like? I know it sounds different in French, Spanish, Latin, Hungarian, Japanese so what does it sound like? SimonTrew (talk) 00:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Hungarian letter 'c' is pronounced [ts]. This info is available at Hungarian_phonology, though. Should we include it here? Providus (talk) 18:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Married names

I have just made some edits to this section, including adding some references (I found only Hungarian stuff, though). I wonder if the "Unreferenced" template can be removed now. Providus (talk) 18:08, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Legislative / nobility discussion

To cut it short, a reference in the Ortography section has been inserted. https://segitseg.magyarorszag.hu/gyik/2009februarKV_12_szulnevmegvalt20100115.html It links to the official portal of the Hungarian Government where the related actual, current legal rules can be read.

In Hungarian:

A magyar hagyományoktól eltérő hangzású, magyartalanul képzett név, történelmi név, régies írásmóddal írott családi név felvételét - különös méltánylást érdemlő körülmények kivételével - az anyakönyvi ügyekért felelős miniszter nem engedélyezi.

In English (translated):

To change one's name to another which pronounciation not complies with Hungarian traditions, or is composed against Hungarian grammar structures, is a historical name, is a family name written with old-style ortography, — except in specially reasonable cases — will be not permitted by the minister who takes care of the cases relating official personal records.

Therefore, a family name with modern-styled ortography cannot be legally changed to a family name ending with Y, using special old-sytle consonants etc., except in some (very rare) special individual cases. Period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.120.68.202 (talk) 08:17, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

/* Married names 2. */

"A further new option, affecting both parties, is hyphenation:

The pair becomes Petőfi-Szendrey Sándor and Petőfi-Szendrey Júlia"

I think it's either obsolate or incorrect, my wife chenged her name this way while I kept mine, so it doesn't have to affect both parties (anymore). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.182.154.144 (talk) 00:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Interpretation of the legal text was not obvious: "A férj, illetve a feleség a házasságkötés után házassági névként családi nevüket is összekapcsolhatja, hozzáfűzve a saját utónevét." I think the word "illetve" often remains obscure :-( It can mean a logical AND, OR, XOR...

I expanded the section with the new possibilities based on your experience. Providus (talk) 01:56, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Name order

I came to the article looking for a historical explanation as to why Hungary is the only country in Europe (as far as I know) to use "Eastern Name Order", and found nothing. The article could be improved by adding the reasons for this. Muzilon (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously because of here, as it is obvious that the family name is the first order identifier, since given names are less unique, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:48, 6 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I've seen that article, but it too doesn't really address the question of why Hungary is the only "Western" country to use "Eastern" name order. Muzilon (talk) 12:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, there is no epxlanation, just classification...(KIENGIR (talk) 20:16, 6 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

I had wondered if it was connected to Hungarian being a Uralic language rather than an Indo-European one... but Finland and Estonia (also Uralic languages) don't use Eastern name order either. Muzilon (talk) 01:08, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried to search instantly some Hungarian literature about it, but found nothing official...(KIENGIR (talk) 19:45, 7 January 2020 (UTC))[reply]

@OrionNimrod: do you have any suggestions? Muzilon (talk) 22:41, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Muzilon, I think it is natural logic, that we get more info from the bigger things. Body->arm>finger. Even the US telephonebooks list the names by family names, the file system in your hdd use main folders>sub folders>second subfolders. Hungarian form: family name + given name. We get more info from the family name than from the given name, much more people could have the same given name while family name is more special. Hungarian date: year + month + day, we know much info from the year than saying the day first. I really do not understand the logic of the USA format: mm/dd/yyyy. Hungarian address: country+city+street+housenumber, again we know more info about the city location than saying first the house number. Hungarian words in vocabulary also use this tree>branch>leaf logic. Hungarians also have eastern cultural heritage Hungarians#Ethnic affiliations and genetic origins, ancient Scythia started in the Carpathian Basin and stretching in the steppe to the Ordos region, the Scythian horse folks moved between these area in the past. OrionNimrod (talk) 23:51, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I read in Hungarian wiki that the Eastern name order was used also in medieval Europe in many countries. OrionNimrod (talk) 00:03, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you have reliable sources, please feel free to add an explanation to the article. Enquiring minds want to know. :) Muzilon (talk) 01:45, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know the story why Hungary use that form and why other countries not. It can be cultural impact, you know countries influence each other. OrionNimrod (talk) 09:59, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Archaic spellings

This edit seems incorrect. Could a speaker of Hungarian fact check? 83.185.90.206 (talk) 06:28, 28 June 2021 (UTC) Joshua[reply]

Why no mention of why the names are reversed, in other "Western" languages?

There is absolutely no mention, in the "Treatment of Hungarian names in English and other languages"-section, as to why Hungarian names have the name order flipped, in other "Western" languages. This is not done for any other names, aside from Japanese ones
…and that is due to the Japanese's misguided notions, during the Meiji-era. In part they thought that they needed to "westernize" (whilst having a rather poor grasp of "the West", such as thinking that the British ate steak every day, and the like… There were even intellectuals who argued getting rid of the Japanese language, and switching to English!), in order to modernize, and that reversing their names was part of that for some reason …as well as, perhaps, the notion that they needed to "translate" their names, to the "Western" order, so that "Westerners" would understand …despite the fact that "Westerners" handle other "Eastern order" Asian names, without any problems.
Yet there is no hint of an explanation or reason, for that, mentioned anywhere.
…and there is also a notable lack of explanation for why Hungarians, fairly alone in "the West", use a "family name first" order.--98.128.229.118 (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I raised that question in the Name Order section above. To date there has not been a definitive answer. Muzilon (talk) 00:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Top 10

Accortding to the Hungarian population registry database of 2007:^[1]

Top 10 common surnames in Hungary
Rank	Surname	Meaning	Persons	%
1	Nagy	big	241,928	2.38
2	Kovács	smith	223,808	2.20
3	Tóth	Slavic, Slovak	222,228	2.19
4	Szabó	tailor	216,377	2.13
5	Horváth	Croat	203,765	2.01
6	Kis	small	167,673	1.65
7	Varga	shoemaker	140,709	1.38
8	Molnár	miller	109,233	1.07
9	Németh	German	97,584	0.96
10	Balogh	left-handed	97,309	0.96

References

^ Tamás Farkas, Surnames of ethnonymic origin inthe Hungarian language

One of the few in Europe to use Eastern name order

On the first paragraph it says "Hungarian is one of the few national languages in Europe to use the Eastern name order [...]". I thought it was the only national language in Europe to have this feature so how is it "one of the few [...] in Europe"? You could argue Basque also has it, but I have reason to believe it is neither common at all nor is it a national language. So I believe it should be reworded, though do correct me if I'm wrong. Demagoras^talk 16:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In Russian, Belarusian, and Ukrainian both name orders are used equally frequently: Eastern order is used in official cases when people are to be sorted by name, and Western order in most other cases. See e.g bios in ruwiki: ru:Категория:Писатели XX века or "East Slavic names" --Altenmann >talk 18:26, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As a fun fact, Hungarian artist Ilona Keserü, being sick of confusion with her name styles herself as Ilona Keserü Ilona. --Altenmann >talk 18:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Tamás Farkas, Surnames of ethnonymic origin inthe Hungarian language

[1]