Talk:Human right to water and sanitation

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Right to water and water scarcity

I suggest to remove the comment related to water scarcity from this article. As shown in the 2006 UN Development Report on Water, water scarcity is not a key factor depriving people of the human right of water. Municipal water use accounts for less than 10% of total global water use and essential drinking water needs only acccount for a fraction of that amount. In almost all circumstances the real reasons preventing a fulfillment of the human right to water are a lack of financial resources and policies that would allow to store, transport and treat available water resources, in order for the right to sufficient, accesible, safe and affordable water can become a reality.--Mschiffler 03:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Change article name to "Right to water and sanitation"?

I think the name of the article should be changed to "Right to water and sanitation", or "Human right to water and sanitation" (abbreviated as HRWS). I would say the latter is the more commonly used term now. As far as I know, in the international discourse it is now usually "right to water and sanitation". EvM-Susana (talk) 08:09, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree, this seems to me to be ignoring almost entirely the UN declared Right to Sanitation as part of the HRWS. I have changed the first sentence to use the words in the 2010 UN GA statement, but more work needs to be done to discuss properly the theme.

I think other authors have tried here to discuss the whole notion of a "right to water", but in my opinion the UN declaration should be front-and-centre of the article, which therefore should include prominently the right to sanitation. Therefore I believe the page should actually be "Human Right to Water and Sanitation." I can't see a reason why the existing content would not fit within that. JMWt (talk) 08:43, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I would like to put up again on my suggestion from September 2015 to change the name of this article. If there are no objections within a week or so, I will go ahead (I don't actually know where I have to go to get the article name change done - can anyone advise on that?).EvMsmile (talk) 23:18, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Proposed improvements to the article

I asked an expert about possible improvements to the article and here are his suggestions (perhaps someone has time to tackle them in future):

- I would mention in the title and integrate in the text the right to sanitation - In terms of contents, my feeling is that the description of the normative and cross-cutting criteria is not clear ... not sure if a more detailed description would help the reader better understand the scope / content of this HHRR. Similarly, no specific mention is made in relation to the concept of progressive realisation. And the issues of "right-holders" and "duty-bearers" are not clearly stated. - Which have been the criteria when listing the organizations working on the right to water and sanitation? this list could include other relevant organisations, such as COHRE, American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Science and Human Rights Programme, UN-Habitat, The Danish Institute, AECID (see for instance http://www.aecid.es/Centro-Documentacion/Documentos/documentos%20adjuntos/Manual%20de%20Implementaci%C3%B3n%20del%20Derecho%20Humano%20al%20Agua%20y%20Saneamiento.pdf), etc. EvM-Susana (talk) 08:11, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I guess the problem is what exactly this page is for - it seems to me to read like a legal textbook defining the term "right to water" in the most general way possible and then giving some legal examples in practice. I wonder what your expert above means by HHRR (is that a typo or an abbreviation I am not aware of)? JMWt (talk) 09:21, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Further improvements on the occasion of World Water Day March 2017

I am participating in the Edit-a-thon held by the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance for World Water Day 2017 between 19/3/17 and 20/3/17. I recently developed an undergraduate university course module on human rights for water and sanitation and am collaborating with another human rights activist for possible edits to this page. We probably will not have the time to make them all, but we believe the following edits would be useful:

• It is important to note somewhere in the article that Resolution 7/169 passed in the UN General Assembly in 2015 actually created two rights: one for water and one for sanitation. The name of the resolution is “The Human Rights to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation.”
• Reference resolutions (2010,2015) in the article including: UN General Assembly Resolution 64/292 from 2010 that acknowledged the human right to water and sanitation with 128 countries in favor and 41 countries abstaining. Human Rights Council Resolution 15/9 from 2010 with full consensus on “Human rights and access to safe drinking water and sanitation.” UN General Assembly Resolution 7/169 from 2015 that critically issued two separate rights: one for water and one for sanitation.
• Mention the work of Catarina de Albuquerque. She is no longer in UN position but still an articulate advocate. Reference her letter to the Mayor of Sacramento. Reference her handbook: Realising the human rights to water and sanitation.
• Mention the current UN special rapporteur Leo Heller. See UN webpage here.
• Create a "critiques around human rights to water and sanitation" section. Include work by three scholars: Sharmila Murthy (private sector provision argument), Karen Bakker (the commons argument), and Farhana Sultana/Alex Loftus (local context and geography argument). Also, mention the major critique that human rights are Western and universalizing. Also, mention the other major critique that human rights are anthropocentric.
• A section could be created outlining how different water justice activists have used human rights discourse in their efforts/movements (anti-privitization campaigns, drinking-water quality, sanitation, etc.).
• Under the "Right to water in domestic law" section under "United States," it should be noted that California is the only state in the United States with an official right to water. A 2012 bill there states: “every human being has the right to safe, clean, affordable, and accessible water adequate for human consumption, cooking, and sanitary purposes.”

Ashaya (talk) 13:42, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Welcome User:Ashaya!! Sounds great. Just a couple of hints: When you say "link to her handbook" then I assume this means provide a sentence or two and then a citation, where the citation is her handbook. I.e. we don't want external links inside of the article but we do want plenty of references (=citations) added. When there are appropriate Wikipedia articles to link to, please link those as well; this is called a wikilink. EMsmile (talk) 14:57, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks User:EMsmile Yes, I will make sure and include no external links in the page (only references). I have revised the list above to make that clear. Ashaya (talk) 15:09, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Looks good to me, keep doing what you are doing a bit at a time. JMWt (talk) 13:17, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks JMWt. I am starting to work through those edits, and am finding additional things that might benefit from changing and/or updating. I will compile those below.

• Update the "International context" section to include more recent statistics and quotes. It would also be useful to include more information about sanitation here. The paragraph seems a bit water-centric. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashaya (talk • contribs) 16:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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Linking to this article from other articles

I have just added a link to this article from the article on sanitation. Please check if the way I have linked it is good. What are other pages that we need to link from to here? Another one was water justice but there are probably a few more. Other options could be from water supply or drinking water. And I mean not only in the "see also" section! EMsmile (talk) 17:12, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

This is a great idea EMsmile (talk). I used the Wikipedia search box to look up "Human rights to water and sanitation" with an "s" after the second word. Anyhow, it gave me a whole list of possible pages that we could potentially use for cross-links. Can you see them here? Ashaya(talk) 09:18, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

I have added a redirect from "human rights to water and sanitation" to this article now. I think that's better. Another way of looking at this is using the "what links to here" function, see here.EMsmile (talk) 20:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 16 March 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Dane ^talk 00:54, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

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Right to water → Human right to water and sanitation – I think other authors have tried here to discuss the whole notion of a "right to water", but in my opinion the UN declaration should be front-and-centre of the article, which therefore should include prominently the right to sanitation. Therefore I believe the page should actually be "Human Right to Water and Sanitation." - Has been raised on the talk page already some months ago and repeated recently. The proposal was made long ago and repeated again recently, and there were no objections. EMsmile (talk) 14:45, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

• Agree. Makes sense, non-controversial move. Mountain^cirque 15:33, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
• Support, and should this be capitalized, as in the first mention and per the UN declaration? Randy Kryn 23:04, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
• Don't capitalize it: Use sentence case, per MOS:CAPS, as this is not a proper noun or the title of a book. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:50, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Proposing two new images for the lead

I have just setup a little collage with two images for the lead (the convention is to have only one image for the lead unless it is in collage style with one caption). I felt the image for water supply is better like this as it puts a human in the centre, not just a tap with running water. The image for sanitation is not ideal but I can't think of a better one for now. I don't like that it shows someone sitting on a sitting-style toilet - sanitation is so much more; but on the other hand is it incredibly difficult to find a good image for sanitation so perhaps this one is good enough. User:Bio-CLC? EMsmile (talk) 20:23, 20 April 2017 (UTC) OK Bio-CLC (talk) 01:13, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

My group edit group agrees that the second photo at the top of the page isn't the correct photo to use for this page. Especially that the article doesn't talk about toilets at all. We propose that we remove the "Toliet Day" photo and keep the tap water photo.

Savannarainier (talk) 17:30, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Further reading section not needed

I suggest to do away with the "further reading" section and rather integrate the mentioned documents as citations in the text, particularly the one from GIZ in 2009 (a more recent one for that might exist, too). User:Ashaya? EMsmile (talk) 20:24, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Done. EMsmile (talk) 04:52, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed change to countries in "Right to water in domestic law"

Currently, this section includes only South Africa, India, New Zealand, and the US. We think it would be good to try to include examples from more continents and locations. Given that there are only four countries, we would like to add more. Some countries we suggest adding include Cambodia, Brazil, and China.

We are also suggesting a section after "Right to water in domestic law" that would be entitled "Advocacy by regional organizations" or something similar. This section would outline frameworks from the European Union, the African Union, ASEAN and other similar organizations. Clathrodrillia (talk) 17:58, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. EMsmile (talk) 04:51, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback to the new section on Pluralism perspectives as a mean to protect the right of a socially weak community

I see that this article is currently part of a student assignment and a new section called "Pluralism perspectives as a mean to protect the right of a socially weak community" has been added by User:刃柊. Firstly, thank you for working on enriching this article. That's really great. For this particular content, could you (or someone else) please take another look and make it more encyclopedic? It currently reads more like an academic literature review. Also there is a long block of text and then two citations at the very end but it's not clear which citation supports which statements. Also, it is not written in a way that lay persons can understand it. Is it perhaps also too detailed? The section heading itself is also too long/complicated/specific in my opinion. Note also WP:UNDUE. EMsmile (talk) 04:55, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I've removed the text block now because it doesn't fit well and it's not clear which statements are supported by which of the two references:

"=== Pluralism perspectives as a mean to protect the right of a socially weak community === A legal pluralism perspective is gaining momentum, with the idea of Anthropocene and the recognition of indigenous people who face a serious incursion of right to their culturally important land and water. Pluralism perspectives are a multidisciplinary approach, which apply different rules to a group of people. There are a huge number of international and domestic agreements, which limits the power over indigenous rights to water, recognize indigenous rights, and promote them. For example, they include International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights ratified by 167 countries in 1996, which usurps the power of state who invades the indigenous rights and gives the right of self-determination for indigenous people. Self-determination is the idea that people should be able to autonomously manage their natural resources. Also, in the same year, International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) recognized self-determination of indigenous people to land and water use. The UN Conference on Environment and Development adopted Agenda 21 supported by 174 states, further protecting indigenous people from incursion of their natural resources. There are many other arrangements in international and domestic sphere. Pluralist concerns about all of them to apply these different rules to the same jurisdiction on case-by-case basis. There are many limitations on this multifaceted approach, though. Some rules use abstract languages about the right, featuring ambiguous. They are often taken advantage by a state to power the right to water resources over a specific community. Many states make it rule to adopt their customary rules rather than international arrangements. Also, a content of each rule features differently, causing "inconsistencies" under the same content, agenda. Ambiguity, customary laws, and inconsistencies become impediments to put in practice pluralism perspectives. In spite of these drawbacks, pluralism perspectives provide other options to governance to help socially weak people, including marginalized indigenous people, therefore worthwhile exploring more." EMsmile (talk) 10:56, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

References

Edit lead section?

I was thinking that the lead section could be more concise and possibly add the 5 dimensions more in detail in the beginning. Most lead sections on Wikipedia consist of a concise 2-3 paragraph overview and I think we could improve the article significantly if we were to do so. Also, we could create a section right after the lead discussing the General Assembly to ensure that the previous information stated is not lost. Xelabn (talk) 18:28, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for working on the lead. It should be about 4 paragraphs long and it should be a good summary of the article. I usually work from the table of contents when I build up the lead. See also WP:LEAD. EMsmile (talk) 14:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Adding countries to International Context

Should we try and include more countries in this section? I believe that if we add more people can understand how important the human right to water really is. I was thinking of adding Africa to the International Context section. Xelabn (talk) 04:45, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Xelabn yes, but shouldn't country examples be added to this section: "Right to water in domestic law"? If you put it under international context then you might be creating overlapping sections? I am not sure which method is best. EMsmile (talk) 14:58, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello EMsmile! Yea I can add it to "Right to water in domestic law" instead of International context Xelabn (talk) 01:07, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Adding an example to Transboundary Effects

Would adding an example to this section be relevant? The water dispute between India and Pakistan captures the effect of the "water-crunch" well and allows us to examine the implication of water bodies that naturally cross borders. I think adding this example would aid this section. However, I am concerned about overlap with the International Jurisprudence section as its example would talk about the Indus Waters Treaty which was brokered by the World Bank.

Feedback on the Addition to the Transboundary Effects

I have added a brief example of a transboundary water dispute in South Asia to the Transboundary effects section of the page. I see that the other examples, of the Nile and the North Crimean Canal, are more concise and include images. Would it be relevant to add an image to the new example? Should it format similar to the existing examples?

Comments for improvements

I have some comments for improvements but don't have time to make them myself in the near future:

• Need to think of better standard headings.
• The list of organisations probably needs to be removed or condensed.
• Interesting that this article was the subject for so many student assignments. Some student additions are too detailed and hard to understand for lay persons.
• Wondering if we want more country examples or if that is distracting.
• I am not sure if the article is fully comprehensive, would need to find out from an expert.
• Check if recent relevant publications are included.
• The data under "international context" is outdated
• Add link to SDG 6. EMsmile (talk) 10:59, 19 May 2022 (UTC)