Talk:Hulk/Archive 1

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Headline text

Re: For over forty years, the Hulk would rampage across the face of Marvel Comics, engaging in titanic slugfests and leaving total destruction in his wake. He became the ultimate personification of "brute strength" in comic books, something that not even Superman would be able to match in terms of sheer, raw power. Furthermore, since the Hulk's power can increase further as his anger escalates, he can only be defeated if he isn't given the chance to get agitated. It's for this reason alone why the Hulk is considered to be the heavyweight champion of comic book characters.

Not Neutral point of view. -- SoM 14:22, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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Re:

• Banner's Mind Hulk, some points in time Banner's mind was able to usurp control of the Hulk's physical body.
• Savage Banner, at various points in time the Savage Hulk persona became unstable and inhibit control of Banner's physical body.

The reason I removed these before is that they're best mentioned under Banner and Savage Hulk respectively. They're not seperate incarnations, just stuff that happened to Banner and the Savage Hulk - SoM 18:33, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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Could someone please separate out the character's publishing history from the fictional biography, please? -- SoM 20:50, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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(Description of the Peter David era is needed, please!)

What he said. I was a heavy-duty DC comics groupie in the 1980s and gave up collecting almost entirely in the 90s, so my knowledge of Marvel is limited in many respects. There are enough "Marvel Zombies" out there that I'm certain someone can fill in the missing details.  :) Modemac

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Why isn't my external link working right? The really-long address should be invisible... Tuf-Kat

• It works fine for me...i am using IE 6.0. Kingturtle 06:52 15 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Powers and Abilities

This is getting ridiculous.

IP expands out this section. Maestro25 restores it. IP expands out the section. SoM restores it. IP expands out this section. Maestro25 restores it. Wax on. Wax off. Wax on. Wax off.

Stop the insanity!

While the anonymous user has certainly written an overlong and somewhat conjectural text, they obviously feel that the current section is not expansive enough. Upon reading both sections, I think that some valid additions were included in the expanded text.

It seems to me that one of the core values of Wikipedia is the ability to compromise on a text that at least somewhat satisfies everyone, but in this case each party seems interested in maintaining either the status quo their own unaltered text without bothering to even attempt to meet in the middle.

I've written a version of this text that I'm hoping will meet in the middle, and I ask that if anyone has any strong arguments as to why the text should be made longer or shorter, please post them here to explain why so we (hopefully) don't have to deal with all of this nonsense of reverting back and forth with minimal explanation.

The first two paragraphs rely heavily on Maestro25's text, while adding a few key components from the expanded text that had not previously been mentioned. The third paragraph is my own, as I didn't notice any mention of this information in the existing article. (Please feel free to remove it if I have overlooked this information elsewhere in the article.)

Hopefully, this will make everyone reasonably content, if not completely happy. Roger McCoy 20:12, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm mostly fine with the text as it stands now (I would rather remove the numeric reference, dial down "almost unmatched" a couple of notches to something less comparative, and change "almost limitless" to "potentially limitless").

My main problem is that I *did* compromise on Wolverine (comics)'s powers section. And the same wax-on, wax-off situation persists there, even with the revised text (which is actually longer than your version here). That's why I didn't bother doing so in this case. - SoM 21:03, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Looking at the Wolverine page, I see what you mean... Based on your experience with Wolverine, my above comments are probably a little overly optimistic about the value of compromise in this case, but I still think that the middle ground here was an improvement (IMHO).

That said, I do agree with the changes you suggest. I've changed "almost limitless" to "potentially limitless" (How is something "almost limitless" anyway? That's like a number being "almost infinity"), but I haven't thought of a wording to replace "almost unmatched" that I'm really happy with. I do have mixed feelings about the numeric reference: While I understand the reluctance to attach numbers to these things, "in excess of 100 tons" may be a quite conservative estimate: If the dubious statement on the cover of Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #4 is to be believed, the Hulk can lift (or at least support) 150 billion tons. Of course, a potentially misleading conservative estimate can be a problem in itself... I'm not going to touch that one for now. -- Roger McCoy 09:08, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • Roger, 150 billion tons is a bit much, IMO. A person is misleading himself if he reads and looks at only the cover of the Secret Wars #4 issue. Note that even the cover doesn't specifically claim that the Hulk is "lifting" all 150 billion tons; it simply states that he's standing "beneath" it. If one actually opens the Secret Wars #4 issue, reads it and looks at the pictures, it's quite obvious that Hulk in the story is lifting and holding up only a very small section of the 150-billion ton mountain(s) ... which still, of course, is an astounding feat of strength.

This is really something that's been argued and debated to death so much over the years that it's never really gonna be resolved. Nobody knows how much weight the Hulk is capable of lifting, supporting, tossing, or whatever. One reason that Marvel eventually came up with the whole rage enhanced strength complex is to allow the Hulk to be considered in the same category of strength as characters like Superman or Thor. The 150 billion ton feat might sound pretty high up there, but it's still pretty conservative compared to Superman during the 1970's when he was written at being able to move planets and fly through stars. Take some of these examples of the Hulk's strength: Marvel Comics Presents #52: The Hulk destroys an asteroid written at being twice the size of Earth. Onslaught: Marvel #1: The Hulk cracks Onslaught's armor when the combined efforts of the Avengers, X-Men, and FF are unable to even scratch it. Tales To Astonish #73: The Leader states that even with his advanced technology, he has no machine that can come close to measuring the Hulk's strength. The Incredible Hulk Annual #8: The Hulk strikes the ground with enough force to shake a large section of the Rocky Mountains. The Incredible Hulk #410: The Hulk takes out a prison blastdoor that is said to be able to withstand a nuclear strike with one punch. It goes on and on, and of course, all of these are debatable. Take the last one for example, can the blastdoor actually withstand a nuclear strike or was it something that's just taken as an exaggeration. You know, like saying "That guy's as strong as an ox". Odin's Beard

Hulks

Don't you think that having three Hulks is too many? I think it kind of ruins the Hulk's individuality and his monstrosity. It's like having three Godzillas or three King Kongs. Scorpionman 15:08, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, technically there's quite a bit more than three Hulks, even if you discount Jenkins' dubious "cave of Hulks". There's just three particularly distinguishable/well known Hulks.

If you're talking about it in terms of the character (as I think you are), rather than in terms of the article, well, the Savage Hulk was badly played out, which is why (occasional half-hearted attempts aside) he's barely been seen for 20 years in the comics, and the Savage Hulk characteristics didn't appear until years after IH (v1) #1, and the Hulk changed as early as IH (v1) #3 or #4. There's never been "one Hulk", so... - SoM 16:25, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

So there's more than three Hulks? I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the comics weren't very popular! The kind of comic I would prefer would have just one Hulk, and this Hulk would be the same way he is in the movie. I also think that the stuff about time travelling, the Maestro, and all the other incarnations are stupid and they ruin the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde kind of storyline. Also it's dumb how the Hulk runs into other Marvel Comics characters from the other comics. Scorpionman 02:01, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the comic sold most during the Merged Hulk period, IIRC, where he wasn't even changing back & forth. And Future Imperfect (the Maestro/time travelling story), is one of the most critically acclaimed Hulk comics ever (as opposed to the movie, which I don't remember seeing a single good review for). If you can get a copy of FI, read it.

And characters in the MU run into each other. Live with it. - SoM 10:58, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it's funny you should compare this to the movie... In every description I've read of the proposed Hulk 2, they've talked about using the Gray Hulk in addition to the Green Hulk. I've read about 300-400 of the 500+ Hulk comics from the main series, and I've generally found the Savage Hulk to be the least interesting of the variations. Of course, PAD always manages to spice up even that variation, as we saw in the just-finished "Tempest Fugit" storyline. Roger McCoy 08:32, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What?! How could you say that the Savage Hulk is the least interesting? I'd have to say he's the best, coolest character in there! He's got the best emotions! If the second movie is planning to use that dumb old Gray Hulk, I hope it comes out to HORRIBLE REVIEWS! Why ruin a perfectly good movie with the addition of a completely UNNECCESSARY CHARACTER???????!! Scorpionman 01:56, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Okay, maybe the gray hulk isn't so dumb and unneccessary, but he's not a monster at all! What I like about the Hulk is the uncontrollable rage and the lack of intelligence, just the driving anger. Shouldn't have burst out like that. Scorpionman 02:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Three Hulks and Three Godzillas?!?!

IIRC, There have been more than three Godzillas and At least that many (three) King Kongs... The original from 1933, Son of Kong, King Kong Vs. Godzilla, and King Kong Escapes. I am also counting Dino De Laurentiis's King Kong (1976) despite the number of bad reviews it received over the years. Incidentally, I liked it, but lots of other viewers didn't...

The Family guy pic???

Is it really needed. User:IncredibleJeff

Probably not - SoM 01:09, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe that it's actually a picture from Family Guy. Just some fan art. I think it should be removed, but I figure I'll see if anyone else agrees before just going ahead and removing it. - AlmightyTim 23:30, 4 July 2005 (EST)

I once saw a commercial for Family Guy, and it had a clip of Peter turning into the Hulk. Don't know which episode it portrays, though, since I've never got into the show very much.

The End????????????

How could Marvel Comics end the Hulk series? And in an alternate future? If it's alternate, how could Banner really die? In this future he did, but he could still be alive in the past! Besides, that's an extremely disappointing and unfair way to end the series! They should have the Hulk go back in time, and Banner's still alive here! I really don't see how Banner could die and the Hulk continue to live. If the two are one, then if Banner dies the Hulk dies too! On the other hand, the Hulk should keep Banner from dying! I dunno. I really don't know why people like the comic books so much. There's so many elements in it that make it not worth reading (especially the ending!)! I can't see why the movie wasn't millions of times more popular! It was so much better than the comics! I don't think Ang Lee did a bad job at all! Scorpionman 21:27, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, they didn't "end" it -- the series is still running and new issues come out every month -- they just skipped ahead and showed a possible end for it. This was in the first of a series of comics that Marvel released under the title "The End". There are also issues for the X-Men, Wolverine in particular, the Punisher, and the entire Marvel Universe. (See a complete listing here: [1].)

You would be better off withholding your judgment on the book until after you read it: The End is easily the finest Hulk story published since the end of Peter David's illustrious run a few years back, and stands as one of the best all-time Hulk stories. The Hulk was, among other things, Banner's survival instinct. You might say that Banner didn't completely die, but his mind and his "normal" body gave out, and if the Hulk lost control, both would die physically. Hence the Hulk will never lose control (again emphasizing the "survival instinct" aspect), and his self-healing body likely will never die, leaving him finally, truly alone. It's really a great story, and was written by the one man who knows the character best.

I actually did enjoy the movie, but keep in mind that many of its elements were borrowed from elements created by (or severely expanded by) Peter David, who also wrote "The End." Roger McCoy 08:07, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How is it the best story? That's a terrible way to end any series! Scorpionman 02:56, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Scorpionman

I think what you are looking for is a Hulk forum, or messageboard, someplace you can discuss the Hulk comics/movies/whatever with other fans. This ain't it.12.47.223.8 21:11, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, it is the Hulk's discussion page, but if you could direct me to a specific site, that'd be nice. Oh yeah, if you know anything about that Hulk 2 film, let me know. Scorpionman 02:54, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

YAAAAAAHHHH, Hulk Smash puny little insolent 12.47!!!!!!!!!! 4.158.210.118 20:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Joe fixit/ Original Grey Hulk- the same thing?

I could be wrong here but in the very first hulk story, the Hulk is definatly grey in colour and portrays the viscious and manipulative traits of Joe Fixit. Also his changing from Banner relied upon the moon and not upon anger. Is this not Joe Fixit's first appearance? the green Hulk character/rage/strength thing occured some issues later on. Am I right?

I would say that the two incarnations are one and the same. When 'Joe Fixit' was introduced I believe he was introduced as 'The Return of the Grey Hulk' or someting to that effect. Of course, I could be dreaming in Technicolor (or in this case, grey) and be completly wrong, so someome would have to confirm this.--RedKnight 20:26, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

the clean shavened Hulk?

I know this isn't the comic book version, but I had to ask all you Hulk fans. Did any of you see the Bill Bixby/Lou Ferrigno tv special the Trial of the Incredible Hulk. How was it (first half of show) that a bearded Dr.Banner changed into a clean shaven Hulk? Quite a blooper eh! Mightberight/wrong 23:12, 29 October 2005.

Beats me. I was wondering the very same thing. It could be that the Hulk doesn't have the same heigene that Banner does, as the two are very seperate entities. Maybe Lou Ferrigno just didn't want to grow a beard (ha ha). Scorpionman 02:52, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Article size

Due to the large file size of this article, could someone with more Hulk knowledge than me spin off the character biography/other large sections into their own articles, but keep the key points on this page? --Jamdav86 20:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

As a first step in that direction, I moved the biography to another article. If anyone can concisely mention a few key points here, have at it. Wryspy 07:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm reverting. I appreciate you were acting in good faith, but the split was, frankly, botched. If you can't do it right in the time you have, wait until you have time, and look at other examples of how splits are accomplished before making such drastic and ill-executed changes. A page perhaps too long and needing to be split doesn't mean you should hack away at it to get it down at all costs - that's how not to do it.

Plus, other changes go against WP:MOS (e.g., only proper nouns and first words should be capitalised in section titles, and no ampersands) - SoM 22:42, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Right, it's back in a state approaching prior to the splits. Unfortunately, I don't have time to give more than a cursory glance at the individual sections, so between that glance and the size, I've put a cleanup tag on it for now. 45k means it needs split, but not to the extent it was before, and certainly not the way it was before. The End one-shot gets too much prominance for one thing. - SoM 23:11, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I've got no objections to limiting the article size, but don't accuse me of copying things out of the Handbook for the powers and abilities section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Odin's Beard (talk • contribs) .

You either (a) made the stats up yourself, (b) copied them from the Handbook or (c) copied them from somewhere that itself copied them from the Handbook. They're the only three options. (a) violates WP:NOR and (b) and (c) mean they're copyvioed from the Handbook. - SoM 20:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Hulk - One of Apocalypse's Horsemen

It looks like this bit was left out for whatever reason. I think it is at least notable enough to have mentioned him being War for a short while when Wolverine took him on. I mean, even Sunfire gets a mention as being one of the Horsemen so it seems only fair.

I recall Apocalypse transforming the Hulk into the Horseman of War. I don't recall Wolverine encountering the Hulk during this time because the Hulk was only under Apocalypse's control for a few issues. I recall that the Hulk, as War, took on the Juggernaut and the Absorbing Man. During the process that Apocalypse used on the Hulk, the Hulk's baseline strength level was vastly increased. At least, while the Hulk was under Apocalypse's conditioning it was. In a "calm" state, he lifted and tossed the Great Pyramid of Giza at a few characters, including Rick Jones and the Absorbing Man. A battle occurred between Wolverine and the Hulk after Apocalypse transformed Wolverine into the Horseman of Death but I'm pretty certain that Wolverine never encountered the Hulk while he was War.

But stop deleting all the pictures!

I removed several pictures because the article had been flagged as taking too much space and remains flagged as needing major revision, but who's removing the rest of the pictures??? It needs a few images, for crying out loud. If it still takes too much space after seriously editing the text, then we can worry about choosing which of the remaining images matter most. Wryspy 06:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)