Talk:Hubert Le Blon

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

France Low‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Motorsport Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Motorsport, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Motorsport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MotorsportWikipedia:WikiProject MotorsportTemplate:WikiProject Motorsportmotorsport articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

1901 Paris-Berlin trail

A poorly written journalistic account in the New York Times claimed that he finished 7th in the 1901 Paris-Berlin trail. (It also claims that he died after hitting rocks on land). I suspect that it confuses his 17th place in the more famous 1903 Paris-Madrid Race of Death. But as a NYT sourced cite I left it in. Chienlit (talk) 12:40, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

World land speed records

The Gardner-Serpollet was a world record breaking car in the hands of Leon Serpollet. I can only find one source that claims Le Blon used it to break records, and it provides no evidence or detail, just the bald claim. Chienlit (talk) 12:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think it may have set local/event records in Le Blon's hands, to wit his performances at Gaillon and Arras, but I have nothing about world records. Chienlit (talk) 11:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

World air speed records

Similarly, the second paragraph claims: Within weeks of setting a new aviation speed record in Egypt he died during an exhibition flight at San Sebastián, Spain. I can't find anything about this record --moogsi^(blah) 05:42, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I assume that you saw the time detail and reference in the main body - 'four minutes two seconds' for 5km Motorsport Memorial, (possibly also a better place for {{cn} if you don't think the ref is good enough.). Does Flight etc show the progress of the 5km record? Was 'four minutes two seconds' pushing the envelope? Maybe somebody can comment on the post-humous ratification process, was it political? I have struggled before with unrecognised 'record performances' set by Léon Lemartin days before his death. Chienlit (talk) 11:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm very embarrassed to say that I apparently didn't even *skim* the whole article. The references look fine. I'm pretty ignorant of the history of the different kinds of speed records there are, unfortunately. It's definitely worthwhile to give unofficial record holders some kind of recognition of their claim if it is well documented. Flight airspeed record isn't very detailed and isn't a good source for judging these kind of things // moogsi^(blah) 13:13, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested improvements to the article

[Copied from "Template:Did you know nominations/Hubert Le Blon".]

... There are a few other things that could be fixed (see below), but I don't think these should affect the appearance of the hook in DYK. — SMUconlaw (talk) 06:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the references are lacking page or paragraph references. For example, footnotes 7 and 8 are citations to books, but no page numbers are given.

...

Full citations should be given for the works mentioned in "Other sources". (See what I did to the citation in footnote 7.)
Archive URLs could be added to avoid link rot.
In general, fuller information should be provided for many of the citations. For example, footnote 2 (which merely states "Motorsport Memorial, Profile of Hubert Le Blon") should have information such as the publisher of the website and the date of the webpage accessed added to it.

...

Georgano 'Complete Encyclopedia' reference - Page id added. (Encyclopedia's are in alphabetic sequence, Le Bl etc) Chienlit (talk) 23:39, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Georgano cite now replicates the stated example in footnote 7. Chienlit (talk) 00:33, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Archive URLs could be added to avoid link rot. - I have no idea what this means. Can you please explain, or show, or point. Thanks Chienlit (talk) 23:42, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Relevant refs moved to yearly results rows in table. Others converted to external links. Chienlit (talk) 00:14, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Archive URLs (archiving your links using WebCite or the like) is in no way a requirement of DYK, and you can safely ignore this request unless it is something you wish to do. Basically, it saves the referenced material somewhere that it will always be available. It is also not required for Good Articles or even Featured Articles. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you BlueMoonset. I don't use any editing tools, I just edit the HTML. Chienlit (talk) 00:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote 2 does not 'merely state...' It provides a live link to http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/ Do you want me to repeat www.motorsportmemorial.org so that it displays on the article? Can you please add a pointer to the relevant WP advice, or to some examples. Chienlit (talk) 00:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Full citations should be given for the works mentioned in "Other sources". - "Other sources" clearly states Cited by Motorsport Memorial. and Cited by Darren Galpin of Team Dan:. Thus, ergo, this means that, I don't have access to their sources, so I need guidance - Should I go through a meaningless charade of manually creating pseudo citations, or should they be completely removed from the page thus diluting the information content, or is this demand pushing the envelope, or is there some other response? Chienlit (talk) 00:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

...

Hi, Chienlit. Here are my further comments:

Archive URLs. Link rot is a significant problem. It can be combatted by using archive URLs in articles. Whenever you link to a website, check if the website has been archived by the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. If so, you can add the archive URL as well, so that if the original website is closed down readers of the article can still access it from the archive URL. If the website doesn't appear on the Wayback Machine, you can archive it yourself using WebCitation.
Full citations. The point of having references is so that readers who wish to look up the sources stated in articles can do so. Therefore, when referring to articles (e.g., from journals, magazines and newspapers) and books, it is important to provide information such as the place of publication, name of the publisher, year of publication, edition, ISBN, and page and/or paragraph (for a book – visit WorldCat to find out information about books); and the webpage name, website name and date of the webpage referred to (for a website). I find that the most convenient way to do so is to use the {{citation}} template, but you don't have to provided that you give the information. Here are some examples from your article:

Wikitext (book):

{{citation|author=E. Charles Vivian|authorlink=E. C. Vivian|title=A History of Aeronautics [eBook #874]|url=http://www.gutenberg.org/files/874/874-h/874-h.htm|location=Champaign, Ill.|publisher=[[Project Gutenberg]]|date=26 July 2008; last updated 7 February 2013|isbn=978-1-4385-1925-8}}.

Result: E. Charles Vivian (26 July 2008; last updated 7 February 2013), A History of Aeronautics [eBook #874], Champaign, Ill.: Project Gutenberg, ISBN 978-1-4385-1925-8 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help).

Wikitext (website):

{{citation|title=Driver Profile: Hubert Le Bron|url=http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/article/wednesday_january_13_2010_driver_profile_hubert_le_blon|archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6EhM23CvH|archivedate=24 February 2013|publisher=Vanderbilt Cup Races|date=12 January 2010}}.

(I used WebCite to archive this webpage. Note how I used the parameters |archiveurl= and |archivedate= in the template.)

Result: Driver Profile: Hubert Le Bron, Vanderbilt Cup Races, 12 January 2010, archived from the original on 24 February 2013.

Wikitext (newspaper article):

{{citation|title=French driver very highly thought of|url=http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19061110&id=Kg8bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tkgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2132,2585978|newspaper=[[Pittsburgh Press]] (reproduced on the [[Google]] website)|date=11 November 1906|page=15}}.

Result: "French driver very highly thought of", Pittsburgh Press (reproduced on the Google website), p. 15, 11 November 1906.

Sources in "Other sources". You asked: "Should I go through a meaningless charade of manually creating pseudo citations, or should they be completely removed from the page thus diluting the information content ...?" Well, I don't know what you mean by "pseudo citations". Obviously, you shouldn't create fake citations if you don't know what they are. My personal view is that complete citations should be given, otherwise it doesn't help readers. Therefore, removing incomplete citations from the article would not be "diluting the information content".

— SMUconlaw (talk) 15:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]