Talk:Howell (name)
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I've moved the following section from the article, as it's unsourced and of dubious relevance. If resurrected, it needs a copy-edit. Dave.Dunford (talk) 14:15, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Family legend
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The family legend is more revealing than the mere list of similar names. Many people by the name of Walsh and Welsh, who come from Kilkenny in Ireland know that they are related to Howell through the Cambro-Norman campaign of Princess Nest, recorded historiographically by Geraldus Cambrensis for posterity.
The Hayles Castle of Kilkenny possessed very precise details of the family kinship until it was sacked by Cromwell, in a very similar Irish campaign to the one conducted by Princess Nest, 500 years earlier. Princess Nest was greatgrand daughter of Hywel Dda as was Geraldus his Greatgrand son.
The names Hayle, Hoyle are variations in the Irish county as also, Houlden, Houlder,and very occasionally Howelden.
The names Games and Mostyn are also branches of the family who merely changed their names without sensing any loss of pride at being descended from the great 10thC king, Games being descendants of Howell Gam (meaning lame leg), and Mostyn for other reasons besides.
The name Powell is invariably another huge part of the family Howell, being "Ap" Howell "sons of" Howell, and closely linked genealogically. Thus two large groups, the Powell family and the Welsh family are to be considered also.
The name Powys, although it derives from Ap Howie (son of Howie/Howell) is a more remote connection although some Powys family members do also make the Hywel dda link in their genealogies. The name has been used for a county name which somewhat confuses the issue.
A reading of the Welsh law of Patronymics 1538c is useful for an understanding of Welsh names, as is a reading of the Welsh language.
Not all Howell people are Welsh, who live in the UK, some being from Lincolnshire, since the 12thC century when William Marshall, first earl of England raised a small army of Howell named people to defeat an insurrection in that county. There is also a large contingent in Bristol.
People called Morgan are descended from Rhodri Mawr, the grandfather of Hywel dda, and also a Welsh king, the father of them all.
entry detail
[edit]We say not just song, but Greatful Dead song (in the example), and we say not just politician or governor (on the list), but what state he is a governor of, so it is proper to say not just basketball player, but basketball player for .. --2604:2000:E016:A700:A4CD:17EA:1109:1F31 (talk) 01:03, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
- False analogy: the singer of a song is not going to change in future, nor is the fact that X was governor of Y (particularly if X is dead). None of the other sportspeople on the Howell list are identified by their current team. Howell won't play for Hapoel Tel Aviv forever, and including the information means the disambiguation page will likely be left out of date when he moves on. Even if the qualifying information is included, per MOS:DABENTRY it should not be wikilinked, and we certainly don't need the extra detail about the league the club plays in (which may also change). I did resurrect the player's nationality to aid disambiguation, however. Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:33, 1 December 2016 (UTC)