Talk:House (TV series)/GA1

GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
Notes section is a de facto trivia section--integrate it with the text, references, or delete it.
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
Several sections are unreferenced--Theme Music should be. Awards section is under-referenced. Production and Series overview sections could stand additonal references.
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
The free image of Laurie could be better... but at least it's free.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:
Needs much better referencing to be GA. ON HOLD for up to a week for improvements. Jclemens (talk) 02:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notes section

Regarding the notes section, it clarifies things in the text which would be tedious to explain in the main body of the text. It clarfies why there is two theme songs in the infobox, it clarifies what episodes two quotes in the text come from. The set decorator note could be taken out and the note about Princeton University could be incorporated into the text I guess or just taken out but I don't see how it's trivia. The other notes seem important enough for clarification. They could be put in the references section but I put them in their own notes section since they aren't exactly references. The bullets make it look more like trivia, I will fix that. Regarding more references, I agree with that. LonelyMarble (talk) 19:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have you seen other GA's which incorporates both 'notes' and 'references' sections like this? It's not common in my Wikipedia experience, so my impression is that it's not a usual or customary way of doing such things. I'm open to being persuaded that I'm wrong, of course. I wouldn't see an issue with collapsing notes into the references section, either. Jclemens (talk) 20:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed some astronomy-related featured articles had this same layout, such as galaxy, Venus, and Uranus. This was my initial inspiration. I liked the layout and changed a couple other astronomy-related articles to it and then I changed the House article to it as well. WP:Layout used to directly say that if explanatory notes were in the same section as references it should be titled "Notes and references" or maybe just "Notes" (which was the title of the section in House before I changed it). So separating the two avoided that. That page doesn't seem to make section naming regarding that clear anymore and I agree the style on House right now isn't that common. It's not really a big deal, I did initally see it in those featured articles I mentioned, it was in a couple others too I think. What would be your preferred way of incorporating/naming these sections? LonelyMarble (talk) 20:32, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If an FA uses that convention, keep it. I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong. :-) Jclemens (talk) 22:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

I've added more sources in the music and the award section, I've also merged some minor sections. Please comment. --Music26/11 14:32, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments will be forthcoming this evening--earlier if I get a chance to focus on this article for a sufficient length of time. Thanks for your edits and patience. Jclemens (talk) 18:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for adding all those references Music, it looks good. I just took out that general reference you added to the Emmy website because it didn't seem that relevant to me. LonelyMarble (talk) 20:24, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't really matter, it just saves some work finding Emmy Award references for the "Awards" section.--Music26/11 21:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And I found a good enough reference I think that says 2008 was his third nomination so everything in the Awards section is referenced now. LonelyMarble (talk) 22:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

About the only thing that still looks like it could use work is the referencing in the "Series overview" section. I know everything there is common knowledge to those who've followed the show, as I do too. However, I'd like to see a minimum of one citation per paragraph--dig back for some first season reviews in the trade press or newspapers. EBSCOHost or ProQuest, if any of you have access to either database, are like Google News on steroids. Keep up the good work, you're getting closer by the edit! Jclemens (talk) 23:54, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, for most ot the paragraphs, finding references is almost impossible since they describe what happens in almos every episode. So, I'll try to find some more references, but I don't think it's possible (unless you want to reference every episode) or necessary.--Music26/11 09:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Soundtrack image

This image was for a long while in the merchandise section next to the soundtrack description: Image:Housemdsound.jpg. There is a fair-use rationale on the image page for this article. One editor felt it failed fair use and took it off the article, but fair use is pretty subjective. Any opinions on this from anyone reviewing this for Good Article? Is it a legitimate fair-use image for the merchandise section of this article? LonelyMarble (talk) 22:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't question fair use criteria as part of GA, unless they're obviously BS, which that one is not. Having said that, I'm not too much of an image specialist, so I won't make fine-grained distinctions. If you call it fair use and it passes a sniff test, I'm not going to gig you on it. There are plenty of examples of outright ludicrous taggings on images--those, I call. Jclemens (talk) 23:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I don't mean to intrude, but the lead is too short for a GA. You all know it should summarize the whole article; try having a look at the lead at Heroes (TV series) for inspiration. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 14:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, good point. It should be expanded--good news is, you don't have to include references in the lead. Jclemens (talk) 16:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It could use a little expanding but the lead in the Heroes example is pretty long. The Heroes article is over 3 times bigger in size than this article so the lead would be longer. This article could probably use one more paragrah and expand the other two a little if possible. I think we are pretty good for references now though so the lead would seem to me the last thing to work on. LonelyMarble (talk) 22:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:LEAD it should be 3-4 paragraphs for an article of this size. There's plenty of material to include. Jclemens (talk) 04:29, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've worked on the lead, tell me what you think.--Music26/11 15:22, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you did a great job. I've reverted someone else who trimmed it inappropriately, and that looks like the final GA criteria to me. Jclemens (talk) 23:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Intro Too Long

I don't know what it was like before but as of 2009 the Heroes article really stretches the recommended four paragraph limit for an article, and note that's the limit not a target. House too had developed a very long intro with four very large paragraphs that easily broke up into to more paragraphs than that if grouped a bit more topically. I've shortened the article intro as best I could but it needs more work. (I'd try to fix the Heroes intro that too if I had time.) For example it is sufficient to mention House is an award winning show and give few examples, but ratings details are overly specific for summary/intro. House winning an award for "sexiest doctor" shouldn't have been included in the summary when it wasn't even included in the body of the article. Still the introduction could stand to be shorter, the introduction for The West Wing a show that ran for seven seasons is quite succinct. -- Horkana (talk) 04:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See also Wikipedia:Article_size and Wikipedia:Lead section. Each time you edit the House article it begins with a suggestion that as an article of over 90k it could be shortened. I would encourage any interested editor to try their best to shorten the article as a whole. -- Horkana (talk) 17:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Put in substantial effort to shorten the intro but it was reverted. I was told to seek consensus here but the person who made the revert didn't make a single comment here. See below for my edit which only moderately slims down the intro. With this much resistance and hostility to a small change it looks like a huge task to bring the article within 90k. -- Horkana (talk) 18:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

House, also known as House, M.D., is an American television medical drama. The show's central character is Dr. Gregory House (Hugh Laurie), an unconventional medical genius who heads a team of diagnosticians at the fictional Princeton-Plainsboro Teaching Hospital (PPTH).

House has similarities to the detective Sherlock Holmes; both are forensic geniuses, musicians, drug users, aloof, and largely friendless. House's only true friend is Dr. James Wilson (Robert Sean Leonard), head of the Department of Oncology. Dr. House often clashes with his boss, Dean of Medicine Dr. Lisa Cuddy (Lisa Edelstein), and his diagnostic team, because his theories about a patient's illness are often based on subtle or controversial insights. House's diagnostic team originally consists of Dr. Robert Chase (Jesse Spencer), Dr. Allison Cameron (Jennifer Morrison), and Dr. Eric Foreman (Omar Epps). At the end of the third season, this team is disbanded. Rejoined by Foreman, House gradually selects three new team members: Dr. Remy "Thirteen" Hadley (Olivia Wilde), Dr. Chris Taub (Peter Jacobson), and Dr. Lawrence Kutner (Kal Penn). Along with Foreman, the other members of the original team still appear in the series.

House is critically acclaimed and the show has received several awards, including a Peabody Award, two Golden Globe Awards, and three Primetime Emmy Awards.

House debuted on the FOX network on November 16, 2004. In May 2009, House ended its fifth season; it has been renewed for a sixth, due to start airing sometime in September 2009.

Please note carefully that a paragraph is not just layout but a logical grouping. The airdates and renewal form a logical grouping and in good writing style should be in a separate paragraph however editors are avoiding putting it in a seperate paragraph because they don't want to hit the recommended four paragraph limit for the lead section. -- Horkana (talk) 18:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]