Talk:Hotdish

This is a linguistic issue, not a culinary one

Any evidence that typical 1950s American casseroles originated in the Upper Midwest? Or is this just a current meme popular on reddit? The issue is that there's a regional lexical term for typical 1950s American casseroles used by some speakers in Minnesota (and perhaps the Dakotas). (I would guess there are obscure terms for this dish in other parts of the country that you won't find on Wikipedia.) This dish isn't unique to that area, and it would only 'remain popular' in certain households (and no more so than in other parts of the country). If it's served at restaurants, it's a recent thing to self-consciously participate in the recent 'meme' about / obsession with this word.

Origins, again

Upper Midwest English speaker, here. Until recently, I'd never heard "hot dish" used as a mass noun (and had never seen the "hotdish" spelling before).

I'd heard of A HOT DISH. Meaning a main course that could be brought to a potluck meal. It's transported in a vehicle, generally, so it has to be served (and is also usually cooked) in a casserole dish, with sides, so it won't spill. It also has to be something that can be easily divided into numerous portions, most commonly (again, for practical reasons) by slicing. So lasagna would definitely count. The emphasis on tater tots and canned vegetables and whatnot is clearly an attempt to giggle at 'the Midwest' for an erroneous, perceived liking for such foods and nothing to do with statistical reality. Those ingredients would have been used just as commonly in casseroles made throughout the United States, including ones taken to pot lucks -- whether they were called "casseroles," "hot dishes," or something else. (My husband is from Texas and says if he were asked to bring 'a hot dish' to a potluck, he'd take that to mean a main course that could be easily divided / sliced into portions, in a dish it wouldn't spill out of. (Think... casserole dish!) I currently live in Washington, D.C., and did an informal survey of my co-workers. Most are from the Northeast, and answered as my husband did.)

The 'hotdish' spelling, the use of the word as a mass noun, and (yes, I've heard this) a new pronunciation in which the emphasis is placed on the first syllable of the word -- all artificial, all designed to be derogatory towards the northern Midwestern United States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SteGenevieve (talk • contribs) 02:47, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Interesting. (Sorry for the late reply.) I'm from Minnesota and have only heard hot dish pronounced HOT-dish (I'm 67), though hot-DISH does sound more like simply a hot main dish to me.

Growing up in the 1960s and '70s, a hot dish at our house usually meant a casserole with pasta, ground beef and a tomato-based sauce. We used "tuna casserole" for a dish with tuna, pasta and a creamy sauce. Lasagna was just lasagna, and I don't think we would have used either "hot dish" or "casserole" to describe something that would be sliced, but I could be wrong.

Tater Tot hot dish is a big thing here in northern Minnesota. (I'm not sure about the rest of the state or the metro area. People up here are mostly Scandinavian, but overall the majority ethnicity in Minnesota is German.) In areas like mine with significant Native American populations, wild rice hot dish is common as well. A lot of articles say a hot dish in Minnesota requires cream soup and canned vegetables (which seems to be a big part of the mockery). I'm sure many people use frozen veggies, and I've seen plenty of recipes for that kind of hot dish with a homemade sauce, but canned cream of mushroom or chicken soup is pretty common. And the description in those articles ignores the hot dishes with tomato-based sauces that are very common here.

I don't think this is a thing anywhere, but I grew up eating "cold dish," the term my parents used for a pasta salad with mayo, tuna and peas (and sometimes onions and/or celery, depending on what was handy). When I grew up, I became aware that it was just macaroni salad, but I like our name for it even though no one knows what it means. :) Lauriellen (talk) 21:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Etymology

Chiming in from the IL/WI border, here. I'd never heard the word 'hotdish' (specifically as a mass noun) until I discovered this annoying, nonsensical tripe on Wikipedia. Obviously, as an American born not too terribly long after the middle of the 20th century (mid '70s), I've heard of '*A* casserole' or '*A* hot dish' (the latter would be used partially to distinguish such a dish from a COLD dish, like a salad or a chilled dessert, if one member of a church or whatever were giving instructions to another for what to bring to a potluck dinner, for example). I also would bet every single penny of my personal wealth that recipes for the sort of 'hotdish' described in this article can be found in thousands upon thousands of mid-century locally-produced cookbooks (for civic organizations, churches, etc.) throughout the entire United States. In other words, this sort of 'dish' is more a general mid-century (to present, sort of) American thing than a regional one. (Though I suppose specific [NOT mass-produced - cream of mushroom soup was definitely available in every grocery store in the United States in the 1950s, and certainly still is] local ingredients might vary a bit.) I also find it interesting that some of the 'Talk' contributors use British English spelling. I think other Wikipedia American food/culture editors probably know what this might signify... *sigh*

Has anyone considered the possibility that the word 'hotdish' just might come from the fact that it's hot and in a dish? It might even be considered onomatopoeia, in that the word 'hotdish' strongly reselbles the noise your mom makes while trying to carry it from the oven to the table (i.e she repeatedly says 'hotdish! hotdish! cominthrough!')

Honestly, all efforts to standardise all articles aside, an etymology section for this seems... well... dumb. 67.169.63.116 14:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I personally would like information on when "hotdish" entered the vocabulary. I suspect it is relatively recent (~one decade or so) as I see no older references. A literature reference, from any time frame but particularly and older one, would help out this page.

As a North Dakotan I would say there is no way "hotdish" is merely a decade old. Honestly I was astonished to read this article and see that it was merely a regional concept... NSilter 21:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it definitely is. I'm from California and have never seen the term before. Thanks wikipedia! 76.203.72.164 21:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Hotdish is absolutely regional, in fact I came to this page after my boyfriend (from Minn.) asked me to make a hotdish for dinner. I had no idea what he was talking about, we call them casseroles on the east coast. Kalyn123 20:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, well I didn't know that a hotdish and a casserole are the same damn thing until I was 16 or 17. I used to think that they were two completely different dishes, and honestly wondered what the hell a casserole was (I'd never had one... just hotdish!). Definitely a regional thing.

I also doubt that the word is as new as a decade or so old; I'm almost 20 and it's been in my vocabulary for as long as I can remember. 75.168.183.213 (talk) 03:28, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

NSilter, or anyone, still looking for any literature reference older than a decade to this term. I'm also curious as to your oldest personal exposure to the term, although that can't form the basis of a Wikipedia article statement.

64.142.13.174 23:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC) Steve P.

A quick look on Google Book Search brings up a 1924 reference to a "hotdish pad" [1] . My mom, who's 50 years old, used the term growing up. 68.191.180.62 (talk) 12:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

We don't need no stinkin' literature reference! Sorry to be aggressive - that's not Minnesota nice - but please don't be a hotdish denier just because you haven't found it in writing before 1990. I was born in Minnesota in the 1950's, I'm still here, and I've heard "hotdish" all my life. (P.S. Now, "Minnesota nice" - that's a phrase I never heard until the 1980's or so.) Philippachaucer (talk) 16:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Beans and/or Tofu?

What the heck? I am a lifelong Minnesotan and hotdish aficionado, and I have never even heard of beans (or tofu) in a hotdish. I suppose if someone were vegetarian, tofu might make a decent substitute (though I suspect mushrooms might fit the bill better) but beans? Ish! This ain't chili! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.150.138 (talk) 00:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Never mind, I looked up the quoted author, and found she is a contributer to Vegetarian Times- solves that mystery. Still doesn't sit right with me, keep your dang beans away from my hotdish.

And for what it's worth, I heard the term "hotdish" exclusively when referring to cream-based casseroles- either using canned cream of mushroom/chicken/etc. soup or from scratch (yes, from scratch!) All other casserole type dishes, tomato-based, etc were sometimes called casseroles. Sometimes.

Fixed it! (in a Minnesota nice way, of course) Gandydancer (talk) 16:59, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

From a PHC listener

I was highly amused to find that Wikipedia actually has a page for this. Whoever contributed to this, you've totally just made my day. :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.202.86.85 (talk) 01:51, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

AWESOME ! ! !

I was just thinking of something random and was delighted to discover an article on this. Just as a gag, to see if anyone is paying attention, I'm going to tag it for verifiability... hope nobody takes offense ! Now , must check for an article on bars.Factchecker atyourservice (talk) 03:53, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

INGREDIENTS

The vegetables in a hotdish don't have to be canned as the main article claims: they can be frozen or even (gasp) fresh, at least in the summer and fall when we're overwhelmed with zucchini, tomatoes, and other stuff from our gardens. Philippachaucer (talk) 16:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Hotdish Heaven

Perhaps the book by author Ann L. Burckhardt deserves a reference here? Just a "Minnesota friendly" suggestion.

gedsm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gedsm (talk • contribs) 13:38, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

It's Hot Dish Heaven, not Hotdish Heaven. :) Lauriellen (talk) 07:13, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Second Picture?

The second picture does not contain any hotdishes at all in the foreground. It is clearly showing the dessert end of the table. It is possible there are hotdishes in the distant background, at the other side of the table, but then this picture is useless for this page. Anyone care to shed their opinion or disagree? Or anyone just have a different photo which actually shows the hotdishes? Chicopac (talk) 19:43, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

RENAME

I wish I could rename this article "White Trash Casserole"... 76.121.112.195 (talk) 23:11, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Hot Dish!

I've seen hot dish written mostly as two words for decades. I live in northern Minnesota, where the Scandinavians dominate. It should at least be used in combination with "hotdish" in this article, especially since the article references the first known sighting as "hot dish" in a cookbook from 1930. I think "hotdish" is a more recent novelty name from non-Minnesotans. In my mom's Lutheran church cookbook, "Our Daily Bread," from 50 years ago, there were a few references to "hotdish," but it was bested by "hot dish" 27-6. And hot dish doesn't require canned cream soup or veggies, though that cream of mushroom soup is pretty common (but so is tomato-based pasta sauce). - Lauriellen (talk) 07:22, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

With or without the space, one word or two words, it seems to me that this is just Minnesota terminology for something that is commonplace throughout the United States and probably other countries, and commonly called a "casserole" elsewhere. Cullen328 (talk) 07:28, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

While hotdish or 'hot dish' is sometimes used as a synonym for any old casserole, it is also a culinarily and culturally distinct regional variation applying to a narrow subset of casseroles. A green bean casserole might be called hotdish, but scalloped potatoes or a lasagna often would not.

@Lauriellen It is definitely written as two words in many sources and cookbooks and bears mentioning in the article. My sense is that the one-word 'hotdish' is the WP:COMMONNAME, and should remain the article title, but if the vast majority of reliable sources are using the two-word version, we should talk about changing it. gobonobo ^{+ c} 15:44, 11 October 2023 (UTC)