Talk:Hostage justice

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Title

I suggest renaming this article as "Hostage justice", as it is a well documented English term by now, rather than the current, rather the rather obscure current title, "Hitojichi shihō".

Same as for the French corresponding article (renamed as "Justice de l'otage") following the escape of Carlos Ghosn, there is now a wide recognition in the West of the specifics of this "Hostage justice", which calls for a more common title. Azurfrog (talk) 15:39, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I notice this article has now been moved to Hostage justice and, while that might be the most common name the concept is referred to in English, I am struggling to get my head around what the title really means. The title is somewhat ambiguous and is also a translation from both Japanese and French, rather than originally being expressed in English. While the translation might be literal, the meaning seems to be lost in translation. To me the title is attempting to convey the concept of Hostage of the justice system or Justice system hostage. The way this manifests in practice is that a person accused of a crime is arrested, charged and held in prison (on remand) until their case is heard in Court. They deny the charge(s), plead not-guilty, and stay imprisoned. When their case is finally heard and they are either found guilty, or even found no guilty, they are convicted and sentenced to a term of imprisonment that is no more than the time that they have been in prison for, or even discharged without a conviction. They receive no compensation for the time they are imprisoned. However, if they plead guilty, they are sentenced immediately and often receive a term of imprisonment that is less than if they had plead and been found not guilty. In theory people are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, but in practice it is more like guilty as charged, unless you can plea-bargain to an acceptable lesser charge or are proven innocent on the balance of probabilities, or time runs out to hear the case before the maximum sentence for the charge is exceeded. In effect such people are held hostage by a justice system that assumes guilt, until proven otherwise, in a process that is long and drawn out, rather than finding guilt in a timely manner. Justice not only needs to be done, it needs to be seen to be done in a just, fair and timely manner. On the other hand, Hostage justice could be interpreted as Justice for hostages, which has a very different meaning. I initially thought, and mostly still think, the latter, hence my confusion, consequently I think a better title is needed, but don't want to preemptively choose one until I know what we are talking about. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 03:47, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Unopposed move (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 12:50, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hitojichi shihō → Hostage justice – This is the common English-language title for this topic. Aasim (talk) 01:19, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Case details needed

I think this article would be much improved by explaining the case. What is Carlos Ghosn alleged to have done? When? And Where? Why has a complaint been made to the UNHCR? What has happened recently? In other words is this a current or ongoing event and merely a Japanese example of what happens in criminal justice systems all over the world. Is there a global application of the term? If this cannot be explained in the article, there is a good prospect that a suggestion would be made to merge this article with the one about Carlos Ghosn. What distinguishes this term as a concept that has wider application than the specific case. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 03:04, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]