Talk:Hor-Aha

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Hor-Aha's name

The description in the first paragraph, of Hor-Aha's name, would yield something along the lines of: "Hor(us), the Fighter", or "the Warrior Hor(us)". Don't forget, his name is really, Ancient Egyptian language: "Hor(us)-Aha", pronounced as the people pronounced it.
(I would assume the word "warrior" is implied in his choice of names, maybe related to the conditions, his birth-rite, or his predilections.) (from the SonoranDesert of ArizonaUSA...--Mmcannis (talk) 01:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it not a mistake to include the Horus element in the pharaoh's name? The royal name was made up of two elements: (1) the Horus-name and (2) the nbtwy-name. Both elements are rarely found together (for example, the Turin and Abydos king lists only show the nbtwy-names for the earliest dynasties). But it is certainly not Egyptological convention to include the prefix when discussing the names of pharaohs. Otherwise, the name of Narmer should be Hor(us)-Narmer, Djer - Hor(us)-Djer etc. In any event, leading sources (e.g. Lloyd (1993)) on the names of the early pharaohs (and in particular on the identity of Menes (a nbtwy-name)) refer to Aha, not Hor-Aha. Please can we rename the page Aha (pharaoh)? gergis (talk) 17:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even if it is a mistake I think we have to go with the most commonly used and recognised name. We don't know for certain with the early pharaohs; you know like pharaoh Narmer's name is actually written "catfish chisel", sometimes he is referred to as "Catfish chisel" but someone decided it was pronounced Nar-mer and convention has gone with that even if incorrect, so that's what we use. But in the case of his predecessor Scorpion, there is apparently less certainty about the EGyptian pronunciation so he is usually just called king Scorpion.. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 18:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Would anyone object to me adding "(or Aha)" after Hor-Aha in the first line of the article? For examples of usage of the alternative name in academic circles please see Lloyd (1993) or Edwards (1977). gergis (talk) 08:41, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds reasonable to me. We should always try to include any alternate names that are in use, of course, and perhaps also make redirects to the most common name. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 10:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox genealogy

The current reference to Hor-Aha's father in the Infobox should be removed. While mainstream Egyptological consensus agrees that Hor-Aha was preceded as pharaoh by Narmer / Menes, where is the evidence that Narmer was his father? Even on the assumption that Hor-Aha is the second pharaoh, and Narmer / Menes the first pharaoh of Dynasty I (i.e. the same dynasty and therefore presumably the same family), might Narmer not be Hor-Aha's uncle, brother, a more distant kinsman or even someone utterly unrelated? In any event, the reference used to support the claim that Hor-Aha's mother was Neithhotep is merely speculative about Narmer being her husband.

Certainly, without a clear reference supporting the claim, the Father field of the Infobox should be left blank. It would be better to discuss possible genealogies and pharaonic succession in the main text and leave speculative conclusions out of the Infobox.

I agree. Infoboxes can be dangerous, they at times take complex information and simplify it too far. See my userpage for my view on them. I particularly hate ANE dates in them. Dougweller (talk) 11:06, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above proposal (removal of reference to Hor-Aha's father from Infobox) has been on this article's talk page for (at least) 7 days and, in the absence of any argument to the contrary, will now be enacted. gergis (talk) 12:57, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First pharaoh

The late prof. WB Emery points out that no artifacts definitely dating to Narmer have yet been found further north than Tarkhan. Narmer probably died before the final conquest of the north.

Also that Hor Aha had a large tomb at both Abydos and Sakkara but Narmer had only a modest tomb at Abydos. Clearly HorAha had access to greater resources than Narmer and seems to have stronger claim to be the first pharaoh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.93.199.154 (talk) 12:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As you know Emery's research is quite old and mayny discoveries have been made since. Narmer is acutally better attested than Hor-Aha (in that we have more artifacts bearing his name than Hor-Aha's) and artifacts with Narmer's name have now been found as north as the Southern Levant. Besides, Den and Qa'a king lists (http://xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/Egyptgallery03.html) dating to the first dynasty, both identify Narmer as the founder of the dynasty, with Hor-Aha second. I believe these important recent discoveries have settled the case now: Narmer 1st, Hor-Aha 2nd. If you do not agree, then you have to at least recognize that the following kings of the first dynasty seemed to have seen Narmer as the achiever of something sufficiently momentous to be perceived as the founding event of their own epoch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.182.62 (talk) 20:46, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First Pharaoh

Sorry to repeat this again but I forgot to sign the earlier entry.

The late prof. WB Emery, in his book “Archaic Egypt”, plausibly points out that no constructions definitely dating to Narmer have yet been found further north than Tarkhan and that Narmer probably died before the final conquest of the north.

Hor-Aha had large tombs at both Abydos and Sakkara but Narmer had only a modest tomb at Abydos. Clearly Hor-Aha had access to greater resources than Narmer and seems to have the stronger claim to be the first pharaoh.

Prof emery also translated "Menes" as meaning "Established" which may also strengthen the suggestion of Hor-Aha as the first pharaoh.AT Kunene (talk) 15:22, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See my response above: Emery's research is very old and recent evidence clearly identifies Narmer as the founder of the dynasty. In particular Den and Qa'a king lists, both dating to the first dynasty and explicitely giving Narmer first, Hor-Aha second. Finally, "Menes" is now believed to be Narmer, not Hor-Aha. Iry-Hor (talk) 22:13, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hor-Aha and Manetho

I tagged three statements attributed to Manetho, which I could not find in my copy of Manetho -- Waddell's translation for the Loeb Classical Library. In the surviving fragments of Manetho, there is no mention of a Pharaoh Hor-Aha. In his account of the First Dynasty the second ruler is named Athothis, whom Manetho describes was the son of Menes & a physician who wrote books on medicine, & he built the royal palace at Memphis -- the last two statements are a contrast to the retainer sacrifice associated with Hor-Aha. I don't know if experts identify Manetho's Athothis with Hor-Aha, or with another ruler of the First Dynasty, or how they think Manetho's account of the earliest rulers fit with the archeological evidence. But these statements attributed to Manetho are embarrassingly inaccurate as they stand, & if no citation is found for them they should be removed. -- llywrch (talk) 06:29, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Deaths due to hippopotamus attacks

This page is in Category:Deaths due to hippopotamus attacks, but this does not appear anywhere in the article.-Ich (talk) 16:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing to suggest Hor Aha was killed by a hippo, unless you a) give credence to Manetho's report that Menes was killed by a hippo, and b) give credence to a minority of theorists who connect Menes with Aha. The category can be safely removed I would say. 172.56.35.184 (talk) 17:19, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I'll remove that category.--WANAX (talk) 10:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2020

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

216.11.189.204 (talk) 23:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

reign = c. 3125 BC

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 00:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]