Talk:Hope Academy of Bishkek

Recent edit by "Sam"

You have 24 hours before I re put the story back on the main page. Wikipedia is not censored and is not impressed by anonymous edits claiming to be from the computer dept. Does your computer department accept emails as proof of identity if they are signed by Sam. My advice is a) get an account b)put the story back yourself and put it in its corect context. Add refs that prove your view is correct. If its political expediency you want then this is not the right site. Signed Victuallers (talk) 15:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I thought it would be vandalism too, and even threatened to get the guy blocked, but then I did a little research. A few interesting points:

1. The country in question have recently implemented rather restrictive laws regarding religion [1]
2. The school have no such words like "Christian", "Bible", etc. on their website anymore (try Google). I may have some vague memory they were there at the time of the AfD debate.

Now, why might a school in a country which recently passed harsh religious laws want to remove the word "Bible" from their website?

Perhaps you and the others at WP:SCHOOLS, who insisted on keeping and puffing up this page in the absence of real secondary sources (not self-published newsletters, directories, etc.), should be more careful before restoring content which claims that this school are violating Kyrgyzstan's laws, without having a heck of a lot stronger evidence. This is precisely the reason we have policies like Wikipedia:BLP#Presumption in favor of privacy: "When writing about a person notable only for one or two events, including every detail can lead to problems, even when the material is well-sourced". Seems like a solid principle to apply when editing any article which may affect living people, not just biographies. Wikipedia may not be censored, but that doesn't mean we should be in the business of being stubborn bastards when doing so could bring a hell of a lot of trouble down on the heads of people who are just trying to educate their kids in peace ... cab (talk) 00:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I did (attempt) to rewrite the article to state these were old policies, etc. Of course, we have no RS to say they changed but it is not an unreasonable assumption. Furthermore, we don't technically have a RS to say they ever had a Christian focus - just their own site (which has changed) & newsletter + being listed in a directory of Christian schools (which says nothing about their curriculum). "Sam" still removed the references to Christianity, though, and a revert would be to my version presumably.

To be clear, I am not saying the article should be one way or another, just trying to get the "facts" out there for discussion. --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, it comes back to the fact that there do not exist any reliable, independent sources about the interaction of this school's curriculum and the religious laws in Kyrgyzstan. So we don't know whether or not the Bible classes which some sources allege they previously taught, would have been a violation of pre-2008 laws as well, what the statute of limitation on those violations would be, etc. And so we can't make assertions about why they taught/didn't teach such classes. Filling up an article with "reasonable assumptions" seems like a bad idea ... we don't do it on BLPs and we shouldn't do it here either, regardless of the desire to make this article into something other than a permastub. cab (talk) 08:08, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know the only source that says[/said] they taught bible classes is school published stuff & they no longer do so I guess the references should just be dropped altogether - just like our anonymous friend did? --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I have no wish to make trouble for a school who are merely doing their job. However this "story" appears bigger than this school. Surely we are not going to ignore a country and its schools just because it passes some harsh laws. I do not think that wikipedia is intended to alter articles to reflect some version of what that countries leaders declare should say or should not say about its schools. Although picking on one school at random does seem to have a parallels with the BLP issue. I think we need to raise this issue elsewhere and leave it as an anonymous edit. The actual change to this article is not significant but the policy might be. If all schools are affected by religous laws then that should be of interest to wikipedia. I will raise this with those who are active at WP:Schools to see if they have a view. Some reasonable views above. Thanks ThaddeusB. Victuallers (talk) 15:19, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

You are correct that this info needs to be somewhere other than this school's article. As such, I have added a blurb in the Kyrgyzstan article's religion section. Feel free to edit as you see fit. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:44, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Good move. Thanks. I made this note as said to ensure the relevant project knows Victuallers (talk) 15:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

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