Talk:Hoori

Merge discussion

The brothers should be united under "Umisachihiko and Yamasachihiko" or equivalent. I am open to "Luck of the Sea and Luck of the Mountain" if you think this is standard enough English, but there are other Englished names for them.

Having an article under "Hoderi" was real cumbersome. It turns out Hoderi (eldest) and Hoori (youngest) in Kojiki are named Honosuseri (middle) and Hoorihiko hohode no mikoto in Nihongi. It was a pain to describe this, and I don't have the energy or volition left in me to make the exact same changes for the younger brother as well.

(Gripe paragraph: In the old article, the description of the birth of the three brothers, as occurs in the original works, was artificially culled so that it only talked about Hoderi alone. Also the article was fatally flawed because the writer apparently forgot to mention that Hoderi bore the nick name Luck of the Sea (Uminosachi). This is practically the most important factoid about him. It's what happens when people just rely completely on some mythology dictionaries, and not hit up the sources, though I suppose it can happen to any of us).

The story of the brothers is also surveyed under Japanese mythology#Ebb and flow, where someone has inserted a Refimprove tag. Again, I'm not going to do the repetitive work of sourcing on that page. So i am going to place a Main tag for this to point to the two articles.Kiyoweap (talk) 19:39, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Notes to self (/or eventual merge editor). The bulk of the contents of Hoderi and Hoori should be merged, but short independent articles for Hoderi and Hoori may be retained (each pointing to main article using Main tag). Or, even if Hoderi and Hoori turn into redirects, merger should make sure the Category wikilinks are held in place, to make sure they still appear in those category lists.

An old illustration is at: Aston (1905), p.149. It's in old hentai gana so it is hard for me to read, but I've been able to make them out mostly. The title is at bottom (or far right if you flip the image properly), and reads "Ryūgū". The man on throne is "Ryūjin", the princess is "Toyatama-hime", the young man reads "Hiko-something". The two round jewels sitting on legged trays are "shiwohiru-tama" (left) and "shiwo-mitsu-tama" (right). The fishhook "tsuribari". The bream-headed person is "Akame-uo" (red eye fish).

There is an Urashima paragraph at the beginnning of Nihon shoki article that might be moved to here.Kiyoweap (talk) 07:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Agree: That's a good idea. I think "Luck of the Sea and Luck of the Mountain" is OK because today "Umi no sachi" and "Yama no sachi" mean natural foods from seas and mountains, respectively, which are regarded as blessings of nature. The family of Ninigi, Konohanasakuya-hime, Hoderi, Hoori, Hosuseri, and Toyotama-hime all belong in the merged article. In fact, we already have a corresponding article in Japanese ja:山幸彦と海幸彦, which is hard to read but detailed. We should keep these articles because we can describe their viewpoints though. "Hiko-something" may be Toyotama-hime's son, "Amatsu-hiko-hiko-nagisatake-Ugayafukiaezu" who married Tamayori-bime, Toyotama-hime's sister. It should be added to Template:Jmyth navbox long navigation template as well. I have some sources, so I may be able to improve these. I'm now working on Fudoki. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 22:00, 18 October 2012 (UTC)