Talk:Honan Chapel/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Lehmann James Oppenheimer

According to the 1911 census (Lehmann?) James Oppenheimer was 58 and surely therefore too old to have died at the Somme. Also he is recorded as being a Cotton Spinning Salesman, living in Manchester but born in Germany. There is no record of Lehmann Oppenheimer in that census. Ludwig Oppenheimer, however, is there present and recorded as a mosaics manufacturer. Who made the entry about Lehmann James and what is the source of this information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.235.54 (talk) 09:58, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission records Lehmann James Oppenheimer (1868-1916) as born in Manchester. He was the eldest son of Ludwig and Susan McCulloch Oppenheimer (nee Findlay), of Montrose. He married Edith, daughter of Richard Newton, of Manchester. By profession Lehmann James was a designer of mosaics and artist (he exhibited at the Royal Academy),he was a member of the English "Climbers Club" and "Fell and Rock Club of the English Lake District", he was the author of The Heart of Lakeland (Sherratt and Hughes, London, 1908). Due to his general fitness, he was recruited into the army despite his middle age on the outbreak of the First World War. He held the rank of Lieutenant, 2nd/23rd (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment. This was a Territorial Army regiment in the British Army, known as the Artists' Rifes. Two battalions of the 23rd were raised during the First World War for overseas service with a reserve battalion in England. The 1/23rd fought in France and Flanders from March 1915 until the end of hostilities in 1918, being involved in actions at Festubert, Loos, the Somme in 1916 and 1918, Messines, Ypres, Cambrai, Lille and Tournai. Casualties were heavy, 237 being killed and 262 wounded at Givenchy during the Battle of Festubert.

The battalion Lehmann James Oppenheimer served in, the 2/23rd, went initially to France in June 1916 but later went to Salonika and then to Egypt to take part in General Edmund Allenby’s offensive against the Turks in Palestine. Finally they returned to France in 1918 and saw action around Ypres. Twenty-four Battle Honours were awarded to the 23rd, ten of them being carried on the King’s Colour. Lehmann James Oppenheimer was 48 at the time of his death, following a gas attack, in 1916 during the closing stages of the Somme Offensive (July to November, 1916). He is buried in the Eastern Graveyard at Boulogne-sur-Mer a large Channel port in Northern France. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Archangelraphael (talk • contribs) 10:37, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Lehmann’s son Eric, who later changed his name to his mother’s maiden name, Newton, worked as a designer for the company during 1913-14 and from 1918 until 1933. He saw action, but unlike his father he survived the war. Robert Field speculates that as Eric joined his father in the firm in 1913 it seems likely that they worked together on translating their ideas and designs into mosaic see Robert Field “L. Oppenheimer Ltd and the Mosaics of Eric Newton” (2006) http://www.tilesoc.org.uk/events/conference2006/papers/pdf/field.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.239.148.121 (talk) 18:33, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Sources: Commonwealth War Graves Commission http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/48333; Dictionary of Irish Architects, 1720-1940 http://www.dia.ie/architects/view/4230; Journal of the Fell and Rock Climbing Club http://www.frcc.co.uk/archive/1907-1919/V2-2.pdf; Roll of Honour, Artists' Rifles http://www.archive.org/stream/regimentalrollof00highiala#page/10/mode/2up.

James G. R. Cronin, University College Cork.

Hostel and questions

Is other work of the Sisk family contractors relevant to the history of the chapel? Also, there are mentions of a chapel and a hostel with the addition of “now destroyed”. Were both destroyed, or just the hostel? Can we get more information on where the hostel was and why it was destroyed? None of this is crucial, but the article as it stands raises these questions. Kafka Liz (talk) 11:23, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

What the hostel actually did could be interesting as well. Kafka Liz (talk) 11:41, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

I have added notes and refs. To cover each of the concerns/questions (the association between chapel and the hostel, when/why the hostel was demolished, the association between the builder's of the chapel and the hostel's replacement, etc). Personally I thought that was all clear. But then I had read the reference material. So perhaps had information that I hadn't noticed was unclear or missing from the text. Guliolopez (talk) 18:37, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Its very clear now. Re Isabella Honan (nee Cunningham), I think my confusion was that she was catholic, and had earlier donated £10k to UCC for scholarships Ceoil (talk) 17:38, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Gulio! Kafka Liz (talk) 19:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Rev. Sir John O’Connell

This gentleman is mentioned several times in the article, as is a man of the same name who is referred to as a “Dublin Solicitor”. I assume all these are the same person, but if they are not, it would be good to know. If they are, then I’d like to stop repeating the titles over and over. I just want to be clear whether it’s one J O’C or two. Kafka Liz (talk) 10:59, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

O’Connell was a friend to Yeats and Purser, and seems if anything under appreciated here. yes re titles; maybe those slipped in from repeating old sources. The article history indicates such problems from the past. Ceoil (talk) 11:14, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Ok. Does he merit an article in his own right, and have we any sources to flesh out his role? Give me the sources, and I’ll do it. Kafka Liz (talk) 11:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

I am trying to concoct, in my notes, a separate sect for O'Connell. For sure he was substantive. Have the outlines for a bio, but at the moment, although he is impressive, its prob going to be a paragraph here. Ceoil (talk) 08:02, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Irish Nationalist

Guliolopez if you have JSTOR, "The Honan Chapel project was intended to be a showcase for the Irish Arts and Crafts movement, which was characterized by a strong nationalistic tone"[1]. I realise the claim was inelegantly placed in the article, and agree with your revert, but maybe it could go somewhere in the "Commission" sect, which tries to give some context to the times. Ceoil (talk) 17:22, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi. In honesty I'm not sure I'd get into it. Certainly not in the lead as you suggest. The Celtic revival movement was more "cultural nationalism" than "political nationalism". And, even then, in a way that was broader than even the concept of a single "nation" (in that it spanned not just the Gaelic revival (in Ireland) but also the Renouveau celtique (in Brittany) and elsewhere). I just wouldn't get into it to be honest. A link to Celtic Revival is likely enough for the reader here... Guliolopez (talk) 17:32, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

ok agree, too loaded, too complex for a short claim, not relevant. Ceoil (talk) 00:09, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Some post-PR thoughts

Ceoil - have done a light copy edit, the results of which can be seen here, [2]. Revert at will but I don't think there's anything controversial. Shall now give it a full read through and make any observations below. It's a beaut! And I look forward to seeing it at FAC. One immediate thought - I saw your embedded note and agree - the numbers of the windows just don't seem to add up. I'll go through Cork and see if it's any clearer. Hope you and yours are keeping well. KJP1 (talk) 08:13, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Architecture

I'd pop in something about its heritage status as a building included on the Irish National Inventory of Architectural Heritage, using this, [3], the NIAH source you've already got.

Altar

"The original altar was replaced in the mid 1980s. The chapel's design contravened the requirements of the Second Vatican Council, enacted in 1987, in several ways:" - this threw me, as Vatican II was 1962-1965. I might recast the para. to something like:

"The chapel's original design contravened the requirements of the Second Vatican Council in several ways: it was based on medieval churches and the old rites; it was built with a large spatial divide between the nave and chancel; and the altar was positioned at the very back of the chancel with the priest facing away from the congregation. In 1986, in response to these changed liturgical requirements, the chapel authorities commissioned the German-Irish sculptor Imogen Stuart to undertake a redevelopment, including replacement of the altar, pulpit, priest's chair and baptismal font."

As an aside, this [4] is quite interesting on the impact of the Vatican II changes.

Have implemented you wording, as clearer and frankly less confused. Ceoil (talk) 21:37, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Stained glass

How many? - "The chapel has six stained glass windows on each side of the nave, three in the west gable, and three in the chancel." - so that's 6+6+3+3=18, where's the 19th? I think the first para. is missing mention of Ethel Rind's St Carthage. As an aside, you could link the saints? Incidentally, here you have "Carthage" with an "e" but in the first para. of An Túr Gloine, you have it without. So, as to the number, Keohane goes: East Window (Our Lord) [1], then clockwise round, The Virgin [2]/ Joseph [3] / Ita [4]/ Colman [5]/ Brendan [6]/ Gobnat [7]/ Flannan [8]/ Carthage [9]/ Brigid [10]/ Patrick [11]/ Colmcille [12]/ Munchin [13]/ Facthna [14]/ Ailbhe [15]/ Declan [16]/ Albert [17]/ Finbarr [18]/ Life of Christ [19]. So there's something awry with your 6+6+3+3 on each side of the nave / west gable / chancel. And the end of the next sentence should read, "four by A. E. Child, three by Catherine O'Brien, and one by Ethel Rhind". And is the list concluding the third para. missing Life of Christ?

So, in summary, p.64 of O'Connell's book has - East Window: Jesus / Chancel: Mary/Joseph/John / Nave: 6 each side / West end: Patrick/Brigid/Columcille = 19. Might be best just to use O'Connell?

Its 4+6+6+3....there are four in the chancel; now fixed. Ceoil (talk) 22:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

An Túr Gloine

"Sarah Purser and Edward Martyn formed the Túr Gloine ("The Glass Tower")" - you'll know better than me but should the "the" be "An"?

Done Ceoil (talk) 12:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Sources

Luke Gibbons - is this "Cloistral Silverviened" or Cloistral Silverveined? I'm not actually recognising either, as a single word but silver veined would seem to work?

Fixed Ceoil (talk) 12:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

J.J.H. (1916). "Reviewed Work: The Honan Hostel Chapel, Cork - is "J.J.H." all we have for the author? I'm assuming it's a review of O'Connell's work?

Its probably John Horgan (Irish nationalist), but havnt found a link as of yet. He was a writer from Cork, linked to UCC, a member of the clergy and a nationalist (like O'Connell), wrote an obit for Yeats (so had an interest in the humanities). Guliolopez might be better placed to weight in here, although this is guess work. Ceoil (talk) 12:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

That's it from me. It think it's looking a very strong FAC. KJP1 (talk) 11:24, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Working through this weekend. Ceoil (talk) 12:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

KJP1 and Ceoil. The piece by "J.J.H." is in the "Ecclesiastical Art" section of Studies: An Irish Quarterly Review (Vol. 5, No. 20, 1916, pp. 612-614). A Jesuit journal. See JSTOR (free reg required). The article itself is attributed only to the journal contributor on basis of their initials. And hence that is what I have reflected in the cite. While I am 99.99% certain myself that J.J.H. is John Joseph Horgan (1881-1967), I am not happy to reflect my opinion/OR in the ref. While Horgan was a regular contributor to that journal, and author of "Great Catholic Laymen" (1905) and other works in exactly the same tone/vein/scope of his piece on O'Connell, I don't feel comfortable applying my opinion/OR to the ref. And so have left it exactly as per source. Personally I don't think it detracts Guliolopez (talk) 11:29, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Guliolopez - Good to hear from you, and I hope you are keeping well in these strange times. Don’t think that it necessarily detracts, but it does look a little “odd”. That said, it is what it is, until we have a source. Is there anything you can add on the building’s “Heritage” status? I remember you saying the Irish approach to listing was a little idiosyncratic! KJP1 (talk) 11:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Hiya. All grand here thanks. "As well as can be expected" is a phrase that comes to mind. Hope all well with ye too.

Anyway, yes, the Honan Chapel is a protected structure. At least once. And, probably, twice over.

It is (definitively/already) listed as a "protected structure" (as a building in its own right), under Section 51 of the Planning and Development Act. By Cork City Council. Number "PS537" in Cork's list. As per page 88 in the Record of Protected Structures annex to the Cork City Development Plan (2015-2021).

It is (proposedly/probably) also covered under the "architectural conservation area" (as one of several structures in a conservation area), under Section 81 of the Planning and Development Act. Again by Cork City Council. In the "University College Cork (UCC), College Road and Magazine Road Proposed Architectural Conservation Area (ACA)". As per page 68 of same document.

Regardless, even if it isn't (yet) protected under Section 81 of the act, it is (definitely) covered under Section 51 of the act.

In short, yes, it's a protected structure. Guliolopez (talk) 12:30, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Do you think more needs to be added on this than what we now have. Ceoil (talk) 03:55, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Some initial observations

In the section "Stained Glass windows"

On-line dictionaries show it as hyphened when used as an adjective: stained-glass.
The first two sentences are very closely related and probably should be linked together. There are various solutions:

O'Connell initially planned that Sarah Purser's An Túr Gloine would produce all of the windows for the chapel since Ireland had no extant medieval glass tradition to emulate and Purser's studio was the art's leading proponent at the time.

O'Connell initially planned that Sarah Purser's An Túr Gloine would produce all of the windows for the chapel, Ireland not having an extant medieval glass tradition to emulate and Purser's studio being the art's leading proponent at the time.

Since Ireland had no extant medieval glass tradition to emulate, O'Connell initially planned that Sarah Purser's An Túr Gloine would produce all of the windows for the chapel, Purser's studio being at that time the art's leading proponent.

I would also explain what An Túr Gloine is: Sarah Purser's studio, An Túr Gloine, would produce...
However he was impressed by Clarke's early designs, and set Clarke and An Túr Gloine studios in competition for the commission.

Was O’Connell impressed with Clarke’s designs for other windows or with windows that had actually been made? It’s not clear if O’Connell may have taken an initiative and presented designs for Honan.

After seeing Clarke's designs for the St. Gobnait window, he commissioned eleven windows from him.

Since you specify the number of windows by Clarke below, I would recommend omitting the number here. You could say that the contract was awarded jointly with the greater number of windows being assigned to Clarke.

The chapel contains nineteen windows; six on each side of the nave,…. Of the latter four are by A. E. Child, three by Catherine O'Brien, and one by Ethel Rhind.

Change semicolon to colon

Insert comma after latter: Of the latter, four….

Both studios were asked to depict Gaelic saints from the early-medieval, so called "golden age" of Christianity in Ireland.

Insert comma after "golden age"

Clarke offered five designs for the Honan project, including a cartoon for the St, Gobnait window. He was then in his early twenties and his Honan windows – his first in a public space – established his reputation as a significant international artist.

Change comma after St to period

The second sentence is compound and needs a comma after twenties: He was then in his early twenties, and his Honan windows….

A contemporary reviewer described them as "remarkable" and a "distinct advance on anything which has been heretofore done in Ireland in stained glass", and compared them to French medieval glass, including those in the Gothic royal chapel of Sainte-Chapelle.

Compound predicate. The comma after glass should be removed. This, however, makes the sentence difficult to follow. A solution could be: A contemporary reviewer, comparing the windows to French medieval glass, including those in the Gothic royal chapel of Sainte-Chapelle, described them as "remarkable" and a "distinct advance on anything which has been heretofore done in Ireland in stained glass".

Some of the windows were endangered by nearby fighting during the 1916 Easter Rising in Dublin. The patterns and illustrations for several other works were destroyed.

These two sentences seem out of place. That area of the section deals primarily with style and content. Perhaps move the two sentence to the section before Harry Clarke, after the list of windows.

More to followVenicescapes (talk) 13:53, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks. Ceoil (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

The writer M. J. O'Kelly suggests they evoke, "the spirit of the ancient Celt".[63] His designs blend Catholic iconography with motifs from Celtic mythology[81] in a style that draws heavily from Art Nouveau, in particular the darker, fin de siècle works of Gustav Klimt, Aubrey Beardsley and Egon Schiele.

I think this sentence is part of the asssessment and would probably fit better before Gibbon's comment above. Once you start: Clark's windows are all single light... it's more of an analysis.Venicescapes (talk) 14:44, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I'll continue tomorrow. But Id like to share a general thought on the images. I'm finding it difficult to have to scroll down to the galleries to look at the windows as I'm reading. Also, the images of the windows have all different sizes which gives the page a disordered feel. A solution could be similar to Waddesdon Bequest where the galleries are interspersed with the text and coded to force a standard height. It's just a thought.Venicescapes (talk) 15:34, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Re images, yes agree, but am strongly considering adding third level headers and adding a short para or two on each individual Clarke window. Certainly, each could have its own separate article. Ceoil (talk) 16:08, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

I think most of these are addressed now. Ceoil (talk) 16:44, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Good morning, I'll continue today on the text. The galleries look better and are much easier to consult. If I may, I'd like to make a few further recommendations for images. I would use a heading to eliminate the multiple references to Clarke in the captions. You could write above "Windows by Harry Clarke". The same could be done for "Windows by An Túr Gloine". I would place all of the images of the windows in the galleries. I think giving at least a uniform height would be visually more attractive. Also, it would work better on various screens. For example, on my screen, the Clarke gallery is being pushed left by the "Albert of Cashel" window, whereas the An Túr Gloine gallery is being pushed right by the St. Fachtna image. So everything is out of alignment. I recommend placing the two mosaic images together in a multi-image template. I would also trim the Harry Clarke portrait so that it is the same as the Sarah Purser portrait. If you'd like, I can crop the image and load it to Wikimedia ... with a different name so as to not overwrite the original.Venicescapes (talk) 06:52, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Your last sentence under the section "Harry Clarke" introduces the Brendan, Gobnait and Declan windows. So those sections should follow immediately and in the same order that they are mentioned. "Brigid, Patrick and Columcille" should be moved down.Venicescapes (talk) 06:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

In the "Tabernacle" section:

The comma between the adjective triangular and its noun panel should be removed. The same between rectangular and panel in the second paragraph.

The comma after "entrance" should be removed (compound predicate). The same after Reeves (again compound predicate – alternatively, separate the last part: They have been described…) The same after ringed crosses (Lamb standing … and two angels acting are both parts of the same prepositional phrase).

Since Trinity of God refers to all three, there should be a colon. The Father should be capitalized. I would invert Jesus and the Holy Spirit to maintain the customary sequence. Because of the colon, separate the last part as a sentence: Around them, two angels carry the sun, moon, and other symbols of creation.

Optional comma after Here: Here, he is...

Carrying is ambiguous. If it refers to he, then: Here, he is accompanied by flights of angels and carries instruments of the Passion. If it refers (as I suspect) to the angels, then: Here, he is accompanied by flights of angels who carry (or who are shown carrying) instruments of the Passion.

I'm off to mass. More later.Venicescapes (talk) 07:24, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

In the "Altar" section:

The chapel has had two altars; the original was a plain slab of Irish limestone selected to contrast with the ornately carved Italian marble then in fashion which O'Connell disliked.[29] It contained silver fittings by Edmond Johnson, Dublin and William Egan and Sons of St Patrick's Street, Cork.[54] The altar was positioned on a five-legged table, each leg lined with an Irish crucifix[55] formed from simple geometric designs including zig-zag patterns in lozenge and saltire, continuous dots, and chevrons.

I would change the semicolon to a period since you mention two altars but then only discuss one immediately following: The chapel has had two altars. The original altar was…

Replace comma with of: Edmond Johnson of Dublin

I’m not sure what you mean by each leg lined with an Irish crucifix. Is each leg concave with a crucifix? Does each leg have a crucifix incised on it? Is each leg in the shape of a crucifix?

The chapel's original design contravened the requirements of the Second Vatican Council in several ways: it was based on medieval churches and the old rites; it was built with a large spatial divide between the nave and chancel; and the altar was positioned at the very back of the chancel with the priest facing away from the congregation.

...it was based on medieval churches and the old rites... doesn’t reference a specific problem (unlike the two points that follow). Consider: Since the chapel's original design was based on medieval churches and the old rites, it contravened the requirements of the Second Vatican Council in several ways in that it was built with a large spatial divide between the nave and chancel and the altar was positioned at the very back of the chancel with the priest facing away from the congregation. (A better solution could be: Since the chapel's original design was based on medieval churches and the old rites, it contravened the requirements of the Second Vatican Council in several ways. Namely, it was built with a large spatial divide...)

In 1986, in response to these changed liturgical requirements, the chapel authorities commissioned the architect Richard Hurley to redesign elements of its fixtures.

Change these to the.

He in turn employed the German-Irish sculptor Imogen Stuart to undertake a redevelopment, including replacement of the altar, pulpit, the ceremonial chairs and the baptismal font.

Either add the before pulpit or delete the both before ceremonial chairs and baptismal font.

Stuart's replacement altar was constructed in oak, and depicts two of the Evangelists.

The comma after oak should be removed (compound predicate). However, since you’re talking about two very different aspects (materials and subject matter), you might consider a different approach: Stuart's replacement altar, constructed in oak, depicts two of the Evangelists.

Can you specify which evangelists? Why only two and why those specific two?

Insert comma after movable (participial phrase at the beginning of sentence): Being movable, it….

There are two consecutive sentences that begin with the same word Although. Can you rewrite one of them?

I would move the last sentence (Although Stuart works with other materials…) up to where you mention the material of the altar: The replacement altar, constructed in oak, depicts two of the Evangelists. Although Stuart works with other materials, she favours wooden carvings, as exemplified by those at the front of the Honan altar. (You might want to experiment with the wording).Venicescapes (talk) 10:00, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

In the "Mosaics" section:

The mosaic flooring was designed and installed by the UK-based mosaic artist Ludwig Oppenheimer. It is decorated with symbols of the zodiac,[42] images based on the mythological "River of Life",[30][44] and depictions of flora, fauna and river scenes. These designs celebrate the Genesis creation narrative, and illustrate passages from the Old Testament including the "Benedicite" (also known as "A Song of Creation") from the Book of Daniel, which was sung during the office of lauds on Sundays and feast days. The pattern at the entrance contains a verse from Psalm 148 ("Praise to the Lord from Creation").

Change commas after zodiac and life to semicolons. There is a series (flora, fauna, and river scenes) within a series (symbols; images; and depictions)

Delete comma after illustrate.

Would it be appropriate/useful to add a note that the "Benedicite" is in the deuterocanonical additions to Daniel and not found in every edition?

The main entrance on the west side is dominated by a sunburst and stars surrounded by signs of the zodiac, while the imagery on the aisle depicts the head of a beast whose jaws open as the mouth of a river from which fish swim toward the chancel.

Consider: …depicts the head of a beast, his jaws open to form a river in which fish swim toward the chancel.

There are stags, deer, sheep and other animals drinking from a river and surrounded by exotic birds flying in a forest.

The two participles, one active (drinking) and one passive (surrounedd by), make the sentence a little awkward, especialy since you then have another participle (flying) that refers to a different subject (birds). Consider: There are stags, deer, sheep and other animals, drinking from a river in a forest, while exotic birds fly around them.

The section inside the chancel show a globe and symbols of creation, including animals, plants and planets.

Change show to shows to agree with section.

Reflecting 12th-century Christian art, the presence of signs of the zodiac symbolise God's dominion over time.

Change symbolize to symbolizes to agree with presence.

The beast's head in the aisle contains a series of tripartite motifs representing the Trinity: spirals, trefoil knots and interlace containing three saltire crosses. The sea creature at the east end of the nave is mentioned in the verse on the floor by the entrance dracones et omnes abyssi ("Dragons and all the depths"); alongside are the words cete et omnia quae moventur in aquis ("whales and all that move in the water"), which in medieval exegesis conjured images of death and reference the Biblical story of Jonah.

Consider: alluded to instead of mentioned

Consider: in reference to instead of and: which in medieval exegesis conjured images of death in reference to the Biblical story of Jonah.

The colouring of the floor by and inside the chancel is more subdued and the imagery more restrained.

Consider nearby or adjacent to instead of by

The imagery is of the seasons, the classical elements, and symbols of the resurrection.

Should resurrection be capitalized?

Are the seasons and classical elements allegories or symbols?

I’m not sure about: The imagery is of … symbols. Includes might be more appropriate.

A similar depiction on a 5th-century sarcophagus in the Lateran Museum shows Jonah swimming towards the open jaws of a whale with horned ears, and a long, coiled tail.

Delete comma after ears (with ears and tail).

This connection is further made by the inclusion of the trees (the tree of life) which in mythology grow in paradise and represent Christ, and the surrounding animals at rest, presented as symbols of his Christian followers.

Consider: This connection is further made by the inclusion of the trees, in reference to the tree of life which in mythology grows in paradise and represents Christ, and the surrounding animals at rest, presented as symbols of Christ’s followers.Venicescapes (talk) 07:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

In the "Architecture" section:

O'Connell was mainly inspired by medieval architecture and the Honan Chapel's architectural style is Celtic-Romanesque.

Insert comma after architecture (compound sentence O’Connell was inspired—style is) but consider: O'Connell was mainly inspired by medieval architecture and designed Honan Chapel's in a Celtic-Romanesque style.

Compared to the decorative and sculpted elements of the interior, its architecture is austere and modest, and has been described by architectural historian and conservationist Frank Keohane as "a little too commonplace and formulaic".

Delete comma after modest (compound predicate is —has been described ). But consider: Compared to the decorative and sculpted elements of the interior, its architecture, austere and modest, has been described by architectural historian and conservationist Frank Keohane as "a little too commonplace and formulaic".

The western entrance is approached by double-hinged wrought iron gates. Its front was influenced by St. Cronan's Church, Roscrea and contains an arcade and gabled wall.

Should by be through?

Should front be façade or front elevation?

The doorway contains moldings carved from lozenge and pellets, and once contained an iron grille which has since been removed.

Consider changing first contains to has to avoid contains and contained

once contained and since been removed are redundant

Each figure is further represented in the stained glass windows.

stained-glass when used as adjective

The tympanum over the door was designed by the sculptor Oliver Sheppard, and is dominated by the figure of St. Finbarr, dressed in bishop's vestments. The timber doors hang on wrought-iron strap-work hinges designed by the architect William Scott in (according to the writer Paul Larmour) a "Celticized art nouveau" style.

Delete comma after Sheppard (compound predicate was designed—is dominated)

Consider: The timber doors hang on wrought-iron strap-work hinges designed by the architect William Scott in what Paul Larmour describes as a "Celticized art nouveau" style.

It does not contain either aisles or transepts. The oblong nave is 72 by 28 feet (22 by 8.5 m), and contained within a timber barrel vaulted ceiling that ends at a square ended area around the chancel 26 by 18 feet (7.9 by 5.5 m). The sacristy is on the north side (left, looking towards the altar) under the bell tower.

Consider inserting lateral before aisles.

This is a great suggestion and makes the claim far clearer. Ceoil (talk) 00:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Suggest rewording to avoid ends and ended

If the measurements refer to the chancel (not clear), insert which is

The nave is relatively plain, and lacks shrines where persons could light candles or place flowers near devotional images; in this way, it is similar to a Protestant church. Its plan and round campanile are inspired by 9th-century round towers.

Delete comma after plain (compound predicate is—lacks)

Consider the faithful or worshippers instead of persons

Should plan be plain? Venicescapes (talk) 07:30, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Have most of these, thanks again for such a close and helpful reading. Plan in some instances means outlay. Ceoil (talk) 00:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Ceoil How is everything going?Venicescapes (talk) 13:39, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Slowly Venicescapes. As said, would like to rewrite the Clarke section, and better develop An Túr Gloine's contributions. My main interest here is in the windows, can you put your very helpful review on hold for a fornight or so, and will comeback when am ready to go again. Ceoil (talk) 23:52, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Of course. I'm happy to lend a hand whenever you feel it's appropriate.Venicescapes (talk) 10:14, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Sound. Will ping you then. Ceoil (talk) 10:44, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Venicescapes it would be great if you could resume again, I have bits to add yet, but almost there. Ceoil (talk) 21:08, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Ceoil, I'd be happy to. I can probably start tomorrow.Venicescapes (talk) 07:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)