Talk:Homebush, New South Wales
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Inner West or Western
[edit]An anon IP changed this yesterday and again today stating that "Inner west ends at Strathfield. Homebush is the first western suburb". At this stage, I think that Inner West should remain until this is resolved by discussing this and also providing sources (reliable and verifiable) to find the correct region. Bidgee (talk) 03:31, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- No it stays with my edit for now because your edit is not sourced. Okay, mine isn't either, but it is an undeniable fact that Strathfield is a major rail junction linking west, north and south west. Anything beyond that point has never been "inner west" because of Strathfield's identity as a major junction. If that requires a source then okay I'll go find one. Meanwhile I suggest that you also find a source for your claim. Should point out that the council website is unreliable due to it's willingness to take any old information. I've known that for awhile. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 03:37, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Since the IP has redone their edit unsupported, I've removed the region while it is disputed. Bidgee (talk) 03:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Early checking indicates (and I admit this isn't reliable so I'll keep looking) that Homebush is considered part of the Olympic Park precinct. If so, that's a part of Greater Western Sydney (per the GWS Giants in the Australian Football League) which is NOT Inner West. The sources so far are Facebook and a couple of user contributed map sites. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 03:45, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Here we go! Try this one! 58.164.105.136 (talk) 03:48, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Greater Western Sydney would fit, since Homebush seems to be part of "West Central". But we need a map that clearly shows Homebush or a text source. Bidgee (talk) 03:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think a map would be much use, chiefly because Homebush is pretty close to Strathfield, which IS inner west. Any suggestions on where to find a text source? I couldn't find anything else either way aside from what I linked. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 04:03, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Going by how regions are defined in Sydney, I seems to go by the LGA. Google Maps for an example, also a in the Hansard and WSROC's map. Bidgee (talk) 04:17, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Google maps are no good, because that's user altered. The Parliament one is subjective because the bank could service Strathfield (given how close Homebush is to Strathfield as I mentioned). The water link is also subjective because there is no claim that they cover the whole of Western Sydney - just ten councils in it (which isn't all of them - it doesn't cover Campbelltown for example and it goes way further north and west in two council areas than what would be considered Western Sydney ie into the Blue Mountains as far as Katoomba and Blackheath). So in effect we have a clash of sources - and the best fit seems to be your link of "West Central". That is a blind zone if you like between confirmed inner west and confirmed western. Whether or not that would work I don't know. I personally can't go past Strathfield's rail status as I mentioned in the first place. I think that's very important. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 06:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Going by how regions are defined in Sydney, I seems to go by the LGA. Google Maps for an example, also a in the Hansard and WSROC's map. Bidgee (talk) 04:17, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think a map would be much use, chiefly because Homebush is pretty close to Strathfield, which IS inner west. Any suggestions on where to find a text source? I couldn't find anything else either way aside from what I linked. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 04:03, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Greater Western Sydney would fit, since Homebush seems to be part of "West Central". But we need a map that clearly shows Homebush or a text source. Bidgee (talk) 03:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
- Since the IP has redone their edit unsupported, I've removed the region while it is disputed. Bidgee (talk) 03:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
This is almost impossible to solve with citations as "Inner West" is emotive more that a location with real borders. There are any number of commercial references to Homebush as being in the Inner West but I'm sure all of them could be contested. To use the rail line and hence Strathfield as an outer boarder is inconclusive as the rail line is a spine rather that the flesh of the locality. The outer skin of the area is marked by the Parramatta and Cooks River. These rivers do not connect at the western end of the Inner West so an imaginary line is required. As the boarder of Strathfield and Homebush is more north/south than east/west that doesn't seem to be useful. It would seem more accurate to include Strathfield Municipality as a whole in the Inner West and so Homebush and Homebush West are part of the locality known as the Inner West. Rookwood and Homebush Bay might form part of the imaginary line. Has any one decided what is the eastern border of the Inner West? Is Erskinville in the Inner City, Inner East or Inner West? Maybe theses terms shouldn't be used at all as they have no basis in fact and are not legislated. Castlemate (talk) 02:33, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
- This is a good point in general across the board. The only part I take issue with is the assertion that the rail line is a spine beyond Strathfield. The Sydney side of Strathfield definitely is, but the other side isn't because of the major divide with the western rail line and the northern rail line splitting. If one wants an imaginary line, that's it in my opinion. Having said that though I agree with the assertions over the emotive identity, and the blurred borders which this issue in particular has exposed. The identity of Erskineville certainly fits this blur as mentioned. Likewise where the border is between the inner west and central Sydney. If it was me I would argue the far side of Redfern, again because of the rail junction. But like Strathfield it's arguable when you take into account other factors. And where does that leave other junction stations like Sydenham, Tempe, Lidcombe, Granville and so on? 58.164.105.136 (talk) 09:22, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
- The Inner West is more than a rail line and Strathfield Railway Station is not the end of the area as Noth Strathfield, Comcord West and Rhodes extend beyond Strathfield and seem to be considered as part of the Inner West. The areas of these suburbs on the east and west of the line are both parts of the line as it is the spine. Most of Strathfield is west of the station and is part of the Inner West. In fact a considerable part of Strathfeld is west of Homebush. Mitchell Road Strathfield is much further west than Bates Street Homebush and they are the western most edges of both suburbs. Clearly Homebush is more inner than Strathfield. The Anglican Parish of St Anne's s Himbush and Strathfield - please don't split half a parish!
- The Inner West base (the spine as you put it) is the railway line. That's why the split is relevant and in fact North Strathfield, Concord West and Rhodes are not Inner West either for the same reason. North Strathfield has a seperate postcode just to back that up. The fact that the suburb of Strathfield expanded the way you said it did is sort of beside the point, because the key is where the CBD of the suburb is. And the CBD of Strathfield is around the station. Homebush also extends away from the station - in fact the station is not far from Strathfield (which is why I made the point about that imaginary line to Bidgee). As far as the Parish line goes, that is highly subjective because indeed it is not unknown for parishes to be split by postcode lines or council borders as well as situations like this - so the church ignores them and go their own way. As is their right. So as you can see the blurred lines in sourcing are substantial. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 00:34, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- Are you planning to change the description of North Strathfield, New South Wales, Concord West, New South Wales and Rhodes, New South Wales from being part of the Inner West, as that is how they are described currently. Please avoid repeating the ridiculous intro to Liberty Grove, New South Wales which currently is: "Liberty Grove is a suburb in the western suburbs of Sydney, not to be confused with the 'inner west', in the state of New South Wales, Australia." All four of those suburbs are east of Homebush Bay and are clearly in the Inner West. Australian Suburb Guide - Sydney Inner West This site shows the commercial answer to this question. The Inner West is about real estate and so as far as I can see this is the reference that should be used. If you can find a site that clearly denotes Homebush, Rhodes etc as not being in the inner west please use it.
- Yes I am planning to change those descriptions, but not yet. Ditto your edit to this article. I have contacted the site you linked and pointed out the issue with the Inner West identity to them. I will be waiting for a response to that before doing anything. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 02:04, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
- Are you planning to change the description of North Strathfield, New South Wales, Concord West, New South Wales and Rhodes, New South Wales from being part of the Inner West, as that is how they are described currently. Please avoid repeating the ridiculous intro to Liberty Grove, New South Wales which currently is: "Liberty Grove is a suburb in the western suburbs of Sydney, not to be confused with the 'inner west', in the state of New South Wales, Australia." All four of those suburbs are east of Homebush Bay and are clearly in the Inner West. Australian Suburb Guide - Sydney Inner West This site shows the commercial answer to this question. The Inner West is about real estate and so as far as I can see this is the reference that should be used. If you can find a site that clearly denotes Homebush, Rhodes etc as not being in the inner west please use it.
- The Inner West base (the spine as you put it) is the railway line. That's why the split is relevant and in fact North Strathfield, Concord West and Rhodes are not Inner West either for the same reason. North Strathfield has a seperate postcode just to back that up. The fact that the suburb of Strathfield expanded the way you said it did is sort of beside the point, because the key is where the CBD of the suburb is. And the CBD of Strathfield is around the station. Homebush also extends away from the station - in fact the station is not far from Strathfield (which is why I made the point about that imaginary line to Bidgee). As far as the Parish line goes, that is highly subjective because indeed it is not unknown for parishes to be split by postcode lines or council borders as well as situations like this - so the church ignores them and go their own way. As is their right. So as you can see the blurred lines in sourcing are substantial. 58.164.105.136 (talk) 00:34, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
- The Inner West is more than a rail line and Strathfield Railway Station is not the end of the area as Noth Strathfield, Comcord West and Rhodes extend beyond Strathfield and seem to be considered as part of the Inner West. The areas of these suburbs on the east and west of the line are both parts of the line as it is the spine. Most of Strathfield is west of the station and is part of the Inner West. In fact a considerable part of Strathfeld is west of Homebush. Mitchell Road Strathfield is much further west than Bates Street Homebush and they are the western most edges of both suburbs. Clearly Homebush is more inner than Strathfield. The Anglican Parish of St Anne's s Himbush and Strathfield - please don't split half a parish!