Talk:Holden V8 engine

Regarding History of Holden V8

Author DougNash355 on 17 November 2020 you made an amendment claiming "The original design came from AMC in the USA, it was used in international harvesters and some AMC branded vehicles etc, however it was never considered a performance engine, nor was it popular in the USA..." Where is your evidence as to this statement (you have not cited any sources)? This is contrary to accepted history of this engine in most accepted reference sources (e.g. '50 Years of Holden: Complete Encyclopedia of All Models' by Terry Bebbington). Therefore, I have deleted this statement until it can be proven.
Blammy1 (talk) 16:01, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

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The information I have on the origin of the design is that the Holden engineers evaluated a number of different US V8s, including the Chevy engines that Holden would soon use as a makeshift, and others including Cadillac and non-GM brands. The OHV design was chosen for its simplicity and reliability, and featured some commonality with Holden's straight-6 engine (the 253 shares the same bore diameter as the 186) to minimise production costs. Besides, AMC were certainly not the only manufacturer of an iron 90-degree OHV V8 with cross-flow heads.

It is possible that the AMC V8 was one of the non-GM engines evaluated, but it does not make sense that Holden would pay for the rights to another company's "non-performance" engine which would then require significant redesigning when they had access to better GM designs. Also, the Holden V8 has relatively close bore centres and fairly thin cylinder walls, especially in 308ci capacity, which is not a design feature noted for engines designed for agricultural use, which tend to be bulky units with larger capacities.

Again, reputable evidence is needed to support this claim. Until then, I believe this article MUST continue to state the fact it was an in-house design.
Blammy1 (talk) 21:10, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Holden vs AMC vs IH V8

To prove or disprove the claim that the Holden V8 is based upon an older AMC design, I have been investigating AMC engines. The only AMC engine of a similar capacity to the Holden 253ci and 308ci V8s that was developed prior to 1969 (the year the Holden engines were first released) is the 290ci. There is also the later 304ci, but this was not released until 1970, which is after the Holden V8 was already in production; however, I have included this engine for thoroughness. You can see that the dimensions of each company's engines are VERY different:

	AMC	Holden
Deck Height	9.175” (290) 9.208” (304)	8.875"
Rod Length	5.875”	5.627"
Bore Spacing	4.750"	4.4"
Bore	3.750"	3.625" (253) 4.000" (308)
Stroke	3.280” (290) 3.440” (304)	3.062"
Main Journal	2.747"	2.398"

source: http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/m-table-c.htm

Based upon this data, it does NOT make sense that Holden would buy the rights to a design then change every major dimension. Furthermore, the forum for parts for International V8 engines (www.forums.ihpartsamerica.com) states that the AMC and Intentional 304s are completely different engines with no common parts. As to the statement that the AMC engine "was used in international harvesters and some AMC branded vehicles" it turns out that in fact it was IH engines that were fitted to some late-model AMC cars. Also there is the fact that the AMC 304 was not released until AFTER the Holden V8 was already in production.

Finally, it should be recognised that even Wikipedia's own article on the AMC V8 states that the IH 304 "has no relation to the AMC V8 and was in fact first produced in 1959,11 years prior to the AMC designed 304. The similarity in displacement is purely a coincidence." If the author's claim that the Holden engine was an AMC design based on the fact that Holden also had a 304ci V8, then it must be realised that the Holden engine was in fact the existing 308ci engine destroked by 1mm to reduce the capacity to under 5000cc as required for Group A racing regulations, and therefore, the similarity in displacement is again purely a coincidence.

Therefore, it is my belief that I have disproved this author's claims, and unless a reputable source can be identified proving otherwise, this claim needs to be ignored and any future amendments restating this claim need to be "undone".
Blammy1 (talk) 23:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

You are welcome to make edits to the article yourself. Wikipedia is open for editting by anyone and do not belong to anyone. --Falcadore (talk) 23:36, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

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