Talk:Hokkaido dialects

Japan Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project, participate in relevant discussions, and see lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 10:35, November 22, 2024 (JST, Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Japan to do list:

Peer review: None
A-class review: None

Featured content candidates –

Articles: None
Pictures: None
Lists: None

Good article nominations: Vinland Saga (TV series), Godzilla Minus One
Add requested images to articles that need them.
Pages for Deletion: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions.
Improve and expand Japan-related stubs.
Create some requested articles.
Help translate an article from the Japanese Wikipedia into English.
Assess unassessed articles

Languages Stub‑class

	Language portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LanguagesWikipedia:WikiProject LanguagesTemplate:WikiProject Languageslanguage articles
Stub	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

classification

My original source said Hok. was a variety of Kanto, and I'm finding several refs that Standard/Kanto Japanese is spoken in Hokkaidō. I've found a source saying they "are, so to speak, refined Tohoku dialects", but that's from 1955. (And another, calling it a transplanted Tohoku dialect, from 1956.) Hokkaido and Kanto are the areas most associated in people's minds with Standard Japanese, for what that's worth. Or is it that both Hokkaido and Standard are spoken in Hokkaido? Is that where the confusion is coming in? — kwami (talk) 20:01, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The classification of Hokkaido dialect has some theories. I doubt that the whole dialects in Hokkaido are regarded as a variety of Kanto dialect or Standard. Because Hok. in the inland area especially urban area may be connected with Kanto dialect or Standard, but Hok. in coastal area cannot be connected with Kanto dialect but Tohoku dialect. A Japanese linguist Takeshi Shibata (ja:柴田武) showed three theories about the classification of Hakkaido dialect on a Japanese linguistic journal Gekkan Gengo ("Monthly Language") in 2003. --Kyoww (talk) 02:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

一つは、東部方言の一つと位置づけて、そのままにしておく。一つは、北海道を二分して、海岸方言は東北方言につなげ、内陸方言は東京方言と並べる。もう一つは、北海道全体を新潟県方言と並べる。

第三の方法は、『日本方言地図』のデータの積み重ねから、北海道方言は新潟県に最も近いことがわかったからである。新潟県方言は、東北方言の特徴も関西方言の特徴も持っている方言として知られる。

以上の区画論議で北海道方言の扱いに困ったのは、この区画論の限界に達したからである、『日本方言地図』のデータを積み重ねて北海道方言の位置を求めたのは、実は、総合的・直観的方法への批判もあったからである。データを積み重ねる第二の方法を採れば、北海道方言の位置は、たちどころに決まるであろう。

Thanks for that. Maybe we could report all three? Given the mixed settlement, I suspect that the 2nd may be the case, and that there isn't a single Hokkaidō dialect at all, just dialects spoken on Hokkaidō.

Could you provide the full ref? I'm not finding it online. I copy edited the article as well, since it was getting a bit repetitive. — kwami (talk) 06:46, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The full ref appears in pp 26-29 of Gekkan Gengo (月刊言語, "Monthly Language") January 2003 Vol. 32, No. 1, published by Taishukan Shoten (ja:大修館書店). You can buy it from the publisher's website http://plaza.taishukan.co.jp/shop/Product/Detail/50301?p=1&srs=%e6%9c%88%e5%88%8a%e8%a8%80%e8%aa%9e .--Kyoww (talk) 01:22, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]