Talk:Hitlerszalonna

Discussion

"My Dad and grandmother who both lived during WWII used to tell me about Hitlerszalonna, it was a mix of fruits or one type of fruit mixed like a jam but then left to dry in blocks, I remember when they saw a american fruit roll up and laughed saying thats what hitlerszalonna is. In the Bukk Mountains I ran into a little place that sold it in blocks and slices to hikers and those just craving the taste since there is a abundance of plums and apples in the area those would be the dominating combo flavors but have seen cherry, sour cherry, strawberry, and other berry like mixes that grow locally." during times when meat was not a everyday food these were traded and sold in Budapest and other big cities where food was scarce. The local plum jam found in the bukk mountain areas will last forever and if not sealed right they still dont go bad they start to dry up like a rubber like texture, but still delicious as you cut a slice, i think maybe they had a surplus of dried preserve that they passed out to the military who called it hitlerszalonna from being hitlers war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.234.214.25 (talk) 04:47, 26 October 2016 (UTC) This subject is discussed here [1] a bit. I see that someone has translated the hard jam as being pumpkin, but most of the sources I've seen seem to suggest it's from plums? ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

This source notes it [2], but I don't know what it says because my Hungarian is very rusty. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

It's discussed anecdotally here [3] and here [4] and mentioned a few times here [5] and here [6]. And whether it's kosher or not is discussed anecdotally here [7], seems it would need Rabbinical supervision to meet Orthodox standards and whether any gelatin is in it needs to be determined. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:00, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

It's also mentioned in an English source, under the German translation Hitlerspeck. [8] What is interesting is that this source claims it was made of red beet. I suspect that Hitler X was generally a synonym for ersatz X, and that hitlerszalonna may not have referred to any one, uniform product. Hans Adler 07:04, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

"Aligned with the Kaiser"?

Where does "In armed conflicts before World War II, Hungarian soldiers were aligned with the German Kaiser" come from? Hungary was involved in only one armed conflict (World War I) between the creation of the German Empire (and with it the title of German Kaiser) and WWII. The Habsburg rulers of Austria-Hungary used the term "Kaiser" to refer to their rule over the Austrian crownlands, but Hungary was an independent state within the Empire, and the Habsburgs in a Hungarian context were always referred to as "Apostoli Király" (Apostolic King), never as "Kaiser". This particular paragraph has a whiff of "well, it sounds like it ought to be true" about it. – iridescent 18:30, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

At 11th of March I have corrected that small mistake because of the german/austrian Kaiser. About the second part: "but Hungary was an independent state within the Empire": you are totally right the official name is apostolic king, I should have read the wiki more often:). No really I never used to think about those emperors as kings of Hungary, my bad. About the third part it is right there is no reference, it is just ought to be true, but I have written at the original edition this: "One possible source of this name:". If that is improper for this article, then please delete or modify that paragraph. But definitelly the bacon is coming from the fact that there were no real bacon supplied at the II World War, and the hungarian soldiers has mocked the received food. (I am the initiator of this article) User:Izomtibor 03:05, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

German name and sources?

Since the food was apparently introduced to the Hungarians by the Germans who gave it to them as rations, there should be a German name for this food substance, and there should be German-language sources about it. Any clues???? LadyofShalott 05:27, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

That's if you buy into the whole German food supply lines for Hungarian troops story. Seems a little sketchy to me, but maybe Iridescent has a feel for it? It seems like a Hungarian military ration that they named "Hitler fat" or "Hitler bacon" because they were fighting his war. I want to remove the pumpkin bits, is there actually a source for that? The color and everything I've seen suggests it's a fruit jam. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:35, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I think that was sourced to the book originally mentioned, wasn't it? Pumpkin is a fruit, CoM. Hmmm... maybe someone from WP:MILHIST could comment on the whole ration theory and possibly suggest sources useful for that. LadyofShalott 05:40, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The pumpkin article claims they are "a gourd-like squash". Tomato, tomatoe? Have you had a "fruity" V-8? (although they are doing blended drinks with fruit now I think... or ummm fruit that don't grow in the vegetable patch :)ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:42, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Many of the things we call vegetables are actually fruits. I'm really not sure what you're trying to say above - you may be acknowledging that fact or not. But yes, the parts of tomatoes, squash (including pumpkins, zuchini, etc.), and eggplant (among others) that we eat are fruits. LadyofShalott 05:22, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

The pumpkin is only important because this is inexpensive, as someone has mentioned it was an ersatz food, so no real fruit was in it. (I was the initiator of this article) User:Izomtibor 02:40, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

There seem to be no relevant German sources. There are 15 Google hits and 4 Google Books hits for "Hitlerschinken", most of them very spurious. In German, Schinken (ham) can refer to a bad painting, and Hitler was a not too talented painter. And there was a relatively famous court case against a German woman who had told the following joke: "Have you tried Hitler jam? Of course you can't; this pig hasn't been killed yet." Surprisingly she was acquitted, which may indicate that the joke was based on Hitlerszalonna, but I have seen nothing that would corroborate this. Hans Adler 06:42, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

What about pumpkin jams or plum jams or just fruit jams that could be related? I don't want WP:OR, but if the story is legitimate, the Germans must have a name for it. The anecdote does not seem to lend itself to a literal translation of Hitlerszalonna into German - the order is wrong for that. It may not be something we can track down easily... LadyofShalott 07:12, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

There is plenty of information about ersatz food during World War II. As a random example, people cooked potatoes with flour and oil. When they no longer had oil, some cooked them in ersatz coffee instead to give them flavour. There were some commercial ersatz products, such as de:Milei, a milk-based ersatz egg powder. It's hard to find anything relevant to the present article within all the unrelated recipes. The key question for me, which is not answered by this article, is this:

• Was hitlerszalonna a standardised industrial product?
• Was it a widely distributed product that perhaps changed its composition several times, depending on what was available?
• Was "hitlerszalonna" merely a word that was applied in some families to various ersatz products?

I have seen nothing that would support the first option, and I would tend to believe some mixture of the last two is the correct explanation for reports of hitlerszalonna. But then I don't read Hungarian, so I may be missing something important. Hans Adler 07:46, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

It has no german source, just hungarian, it has also appeared in books describing 1956 also, because it has been entered into the language. Even I am surpised that someone has found the Hitlerspeck at the czech language. (I am the initiator of this article) User:Izomtibor 02:40, 14 March 2010 (UTC)