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Archive 1

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Evidence that the attack was because of LGBT identity

Is this a list of people who were attacked for actually being LGBTQI or just a list of people who have being attacked and being LGBTQI in common? The former is a hate crime, the latter is just a tragic coincidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.64.125.7 (talk) 19:57, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

There needs to be a clarification on this page you need to give a full definition of what a hate crime is and what a hate crime involves. The way this is worded in the introduction and the way in which the FBI statistics and other information is presented makes it seem these are physical attacks against individual gay men in all cases. But the FBI source reports and some of the other reports clearly state this is not the methodology of those reports.

Crimes against persons, property, or society The UCR Program’s data collection guidelines stipulate that a hate crime may involve multiple offenses, victims, and offenders within one incident; therefore, the Hate Crime Statistics Program is incident-based. According to UCR counting guidelines:

One offense is counted for each victim in crimes against persons. One offense is counted for each offense type in crimes against property. One offense is counted for each offense type in crimes against society. Victims In the UCR Program, the VICTIM of a hate crime can be an individual, a business, an institution, or society as a whole.

The VICTIM for example under gay men for example can be a individual, a business, an institution, or society as a whole, you put these percentages up in the FBI reports without any explanation of that fact or definition, this may lead the public to believe these were physical attacks against individual gay men when that is not what the statistic represents. These are composites of the above, attacks on gay men, not physical attacks on individuals in all cases for example, but could also be damage to a subjects business or vehicle or threat to a gay pride parade, which would be a attack against gay society.

Crimes against persons, property, or society The UCR Program’s data collection guidelines stipulate that a hate crime may involve multiple offenses, victims, and offenders within one incident; therefore, the Hate Crime Statistics Program is incident-based. According to UCR counting guidelines:

One offense is counted for each victim in crimes against persons. One offense is counted for each offense type in crimes against property. One offense is counted for each offense type in crimes against society. Victims In the UCR Program, the VICTIM of a hate crime can be an individual, a business, an institution, or society as a whole. You can find the Methodology the FBI uses on their website: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/resources/methodology

Ranleewright (talk) 07:13, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

I find some of the Violent acts against LGBT persons in this section to be interesting. One is June 24, 1973 – The Upstairs Lounge in New Orleans, a gay bar, was burned by an arsonist, killing 32 people. The most likely suspect, a LGBT man who had been thrown out of the bar earlier that day, was never charged. The official investigation failed to yield any convictions. The only suspect arrested for the attack was Rodger Dale Nunez, a local hustler and troublemaker who had been ejected from the bar earlier in the evening after fighting with another customer. A friend later told investigators that Nunez confessed on at least four occasions to starting the fire. He told the friend that he squirted the bottom steps with Ronsonol lighter fluid bought at a local Walgreens and tossed a match. He did not realize, he claimed, that the whole place would go up in flames. Other words a LGBT person burns down a club / lounge and you include this attack against LGBT persons because of their sexual orientation and include it after a section that is about hate crimes against LGBT person, sounds misleading? I will go over this whole section as I have time, this misleading information should be cleaned up so it would not be so misleading in the information presented. Ranleewright (talk) 21:48, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

There have been Jews who have hid their identity, joined the neo-nazis, and killed other Jews as well. Would that not be a hate crime? The fact the perpetrator was a self-hating LGBT person does not neglect the seriousness of the crime. The Upstairs Lounge was a huge massacre against the LGBT community. Some homophobes/transphobes attack people because they don't want to face their own identity.-Rainbowofpeace (talk) 23:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

From the FBI report above the list and the methodology given by the FBI no this would not be considered a hate crime. Yes I can agree the death of 32 people by burning is a serous crime, but from the reports this occurred because of a disagreement among individuals in the LGBT community. The record shows the argument that led to this horrific crime began in the bathroom at a glory hole between the partition of to commodes, possibly someone asking for sexual favors. Also it is mentioned in the comments that a crime figure received a monetary return (insurance) when the lounge burned, that to would not necessarily fall under the definition of a hate crime as defined by the FBI methodology in these reports, since the motive would have been money, not hatred of persons because of sexual orientation. The Jews and Nazis has little to do with this, since the person accused of the crime did not join another group, at least this is not mentioned in any report or reference that I have seen. The man accused of this crime said it was not his intent for the whole building to go up in flames and he later committed suicide, sounds like he could not take rejection. Ranleewright (talk) 01:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Army veteran Michael Goucher, is another similar case, LGBT (gay) killing a LGBT (gay) not really a hate crime in accord with the FBI methodology. Ranleewright (talk) 03:09, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

A young Latina transgender woman's body was found naked on Friday, March 16 at about 5:40 a.m. on the sidewalk in the 1600 block of Indiana Street between Cesar Chavez and Marin streets. This is a unsolved, no one knows the reason this person was killed, could be about anything or could have been anybody. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ranleewright (talk • contribs) 03:33, 28 July 2013 (UTC) a "Sissy" Charles Bolden, 36, a streetwalker, and the motive is unknown, according to police. Ranleewright (talk) 03:38, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

May 1996 - Julianne Williams, 24 and Lollie Winans, 26 were murdered at their campsite along the Appalachian Trail on Virginia's Skyline Drive in Shenandoah National Park. They were bound and gagged and their throats were slit. To date, there has been no conviction in the murders. Unsolved, could have been a simple robbery, murder. Ranleewright (talk) 03:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I removed the entry for Quinn Matney because the incident was found to be fabricated. see: http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.php/article/2011/04/police_determine_false_report_in_assault_case_will_not_report_it_as_a_hate_crime BigDaddyRhino (talk) 09:02, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

The final paragraph of the "Federal hate crime statistics" section discussing the rise of violence against the LGBT community and the Hate Crime Statistics Act requires editing for both grammar and citation. In particular, I'm looking for the work of Marzullo Libman that is cited at the very end - ideally to hyperlink. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clb219 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

We have a continuing problem. Editors are adding additional cases of violence against people who identified as LGBT, but without giving evidence that the violence was inflicted because of LGBT identity. All kinds of people are violently attacked for a variety of reasons. Violence against people is always evil, but this article is supposed to focus on cases of violence because of LGBT issues.

Evaluation of article

I really appreciate that this article exists to educate people about the violence against the LGBTQ+ community, which is a symptom of more fundamental and pervasive biases against queer and trans people.

I'm glad that the article mentions the Stonewall riots in the overview since it was such a turning point in the fight for LGBTQ+ rights. However, I wish the article explicitly described the incident as a police raid. People so often forget how intertwined queer oppression and police violence are in history.

The article also has a few cases of convoluted language. I had trouble reading through sentences that used the passive voice and weird sentence structure. Here are a couple of examples of parts that lacked clarity:

  • "Many studies have been done in order to help and better identify what the main reasons were and who the main affected groups of people were."
  • “These attacks revolve around the idea that there is a normal way for people to live, being that opposite genders are together and not the same genders.”

I also wish the discussion of "other reasons" for homophobic/transphobic violence was either made more specific or eliminated altogether. As of now, this section of the overview takes up space but doesn't contribute much to the overall meaning to the article.

Lastly, I believe that the murder of black trans women should be more explicitly highlighted in the overview of the article. In general, I think violence against trans women should be emphasized more than it is currently.

HappyGourd (talk) 04:25, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Wiki Education assignment: ENGL 15

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 September 2022 and 14 November 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mkhlchx, Emmaleeclaar, Jackieboralsky (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Jialeijiang (talk) 04:11, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

The new section "effects of violence and hate crime against LGBT"

Recently, a new section has been added, "effects of violence and hate crime against LGBT". It is not within the scope of the title of this article on the history of violence. When students are assigned to edit on hot topic articles, they feel under pressure to write something, even if it is not actually within the scope of the article. I feel sorry for students who feel squeezed. Pete unseth (talk) 01:11, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: ENGL 15

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 February 2023 and 21 March 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Evechery, ShayleeMz23 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Jialeijiang (talk) 20:50, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion?...

I've noticed that for many of the victims listed it simply says something along the lines of "the body of a trans woman was found..." with no indication that the person in question was actually killed because of LGBT status.

There's even one listing of a trans woman killed by a boyfriend (so most likely not due to gender identity).

While a very literal reading of the article's title would include violence against anyone who happens to be LGBT, I think most people expect to only see the victims where there is at least a good indication that they were victimized *because* of their LGBT status. (Heterosexuals are the victims of violence all the time, but rarely *because* of being heterosexual.)

In the wake of the recent Orlando shootings, I think a cleanup is definitely needed to give a more accurate sense of the background level of anti-LGBT violence in the years preceding this atrocity. -79.234.60.195 (talk) 12:24, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the previous editor that this article has a number of articles for which there is no evidence given that the violence was related to sexucal or gender identity. Any incident that is added must include evidence that the violence was directly related to the victim's identity. Pete unseth (talk) 20:06, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
The problem previously identified continues: The list of LGBT people who have been victims of violence continues to grow, but a number of these examples include zero evidence that the attack was related to their LGBT identity. I will note this at the top of the list. Pete unseth (talk) 14:16, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Ideas for future revisions

(This post is for a class on Poverty, Justice, and Human Capabilities) Not only does this article need improvement in clarity and sentence structure, but it also should emphasize more of the role that police violence has played LGBTQ+ history. I also think the article should highlight the murder of trans women as a top priority issue in the US instead of treating violence against the LGBTQ+ community as one monolithic issue. Check out my user page to see some sources I may use. HappyGourd (talk) 14:16, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia calls for editors to maintain a neutral point of view. This applies to all topics, even those we feel strongly about. Pete unseth (talk) 01:24, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

What is "violence"?

Many on campuses are working hard to redefine "violence". An editor has just included an instance of flag burning under this article on "violence". So, if people burn a US flag, a "Christian" flag, or the flag of an opposing team, are they guilty of "violence"? If demonstrators burn an Israeli flag, are they committing violence? Interesting questions... Pete unseth (talk) 01:32, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

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