Talk:History of the Székely people/Archive 1

Archive 1

Kudos et ali

Very interesting article! However, I think you forgot to mention an episode in 16th century: Szekely were catholics, while the Hungarian nobles recently converted to Calvinism, and wanted to convert the entire Transylvania. It ended up in a battle, a defeat of the nobles by the Szekely. But, since I don't know Hungarian, it would be hard for me to find proper sourses. Also, you (the editors who created this article) might be able to do it much faster. :Dc76 20:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it was in 1567, and has been commemorated ever since in Csíksomlyó every year. I didn't include it because I had not found reliable sources about it. Thaks for your comment, I will try to find something. --KIDB 21:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

You are welcome, I can only imagine how much time it has taken to write it, re-re-reedit, and wikify. Plus you have maps and pictures! :Dc76 21:59, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I found a recent article written by the Unitarian Bishop of Cluj/Kolozsvár, where he says there was no campaign against catholic Székelys at all in 1567... According to this article the whole story was made up by catholics in the early 18th century, in the time of Counter-Reformation by Habsburgs in Hungary. I found other sources too, mostly unitarians, claiming that this campaign didn't happen at all.

No wonder I was suspicious, none of the scientific sources I used mentioned this event. I think we should include this in the article only if somebody finds a serious and reliable source about it.

Now the only thing I don't understand is what Kudos et ali means. --KIDB 07:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, without a sourse, it is not logical to include a reference to the event. I would rather keep an open mind about whether the event happened or not, b/c (please note this) all sourses from both sides are religious. One day the truth will surface in a scholarly soourse, and will settle things. "Kudos" was meant to mean "bravo"s :-) "ali" (maybe I misspeled it) was meant to mean "other stuff". I meant to say "good article" and bring some other stuff (1567) to your attention. But apparently I found a weird way to abreviate. :-) :Dc76 12:37, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, very kind of you. --KIDB 12:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

You are welcome. Seeing good work and pretending not to see it would have been dishonest. I hope more people told you about their impressions. I personally have learned much new information from it.:Dc76 14:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Genetic research

The following remarks by an unknown user do not exactly follow the content to be found in the references provided by him/her. Genetics is a very tricky topic anyway, if we are talking about ethnic groups, nations. I moved the concerned sentences here for possible further discussions:

Nevertheless, there is phylogenetical evidence from Y-chromosome DNA analyses showing no significant differences between modern Hungarians (Magyar) and Szeklers, and proving that both contain Asian genetic elements beside the European ones.
Reference: Csányi, Bernadett: Analysis of Y-chromosomal microsatellites on archaeological and modern samples

--KIDB (talk) 09:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Date of conquest of Hungary

The first sentence of the article reads "At the end of the 13th century, .. beliefs about the conquest of Hungary about 280 years earlier." The end of the 13th century was 1300, so 280 years earlier was 1020. So this might just about refer to the origin of the Arpad dynasty, or to the esablishment of Hungary as a kingdom. But "the conquest of Hungary" seems to mean the conquest of the Pannonian plain by the Magyar tribes, which was in 896. I propose altering "280 years earlier" to "400 years earlier". Maproom (talk) 08:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, thanks, you have found a mistake. The chronicle was written in the 12th Century. --KIDB (talk) 08:51, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

INLINE CITATIONS !!!! and statement of Mongol defeat

Many references are listed, but the article is completely void of footnotes. These should be added ASAP. This article is years old, and apparently, has never been reviewed.

Additionally, the statement about the "Tatars" (more properly, the Mongols) being attacked or raided by the Szekelys and partly defeated definitely needs to be RS'd, because I find absolutely no other verification of this in other books on the Mongols and their empire. Indeed, Subatai/Batu's legions appeared invincible to any of the European standing militaries. This seems to be an inflation of perhaps a raid on a Mongol 'booty' caravan heading back to the Mongol holdings in southern Russia; great care must be taken in establishing that it was anything more than a hit-and-run on a very lightly defended horse-train or wagon-train. That the Szekelys would be able to stand up to the Mongols, when the incomparably more powerful combined Magyar and Cuman forces had been utterly annihilated, seems to be nationalistic chest thumping. If the Mongols had turned their attentions to this small ethnic population in any serious way, today there may not be any Szekelys to speak of. HammerFilmFan (talk) 06:42, 12 June 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

I found a source about the defeat of Mongols (see the inline citation I included in the article). The king's diploma avarding a castle and several villages to the Székelys also mentions freeing about 1000 hostages from the intruders which sounds quite impressive. KIDB1 (talk) 17:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Removed sentence

I have removed the folloving sentence because I think praising a historical figure this way disturbes the balance of the article. Maybe this piece of information could be included after adequate rephrasing. KIDB1 (talk) 21:12, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Mózes Székely (1553–1603) is the only Székely monarch of the Transylvanian Principality. His personality, walk of life, historical faith, fights for the Hungarians let us to rate him among the representatives like the last freely elected Hungarian national king John II., known as Zsigmond János, or the monarchs after him like István Báthory, István Bocskai, Gábor Bethlen and Ferenc Rákóczi II. All these great Hungarian characters sacrificed their living for the maintain of the institution of Hungarian nation.