Talk:History of the Jews in Khaybar

Role of Khaybar Jews in Writing Quran (Koran)

Where are the citations? This is completely false information and made up story that has no relevance. This is not even being debated outside that of Wikipedia and doesn't qualify it to be inserted into a Encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.174.124.77 (talk) 03:56, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Some historical facts are passed through word of mouth. The fact/story that Koran was written by imprisoned and tortured Jews is passed through many generations though there are no written records of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6020:19D:955:7C0B:FB8:A70B (talk) 20:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I've removed it. Be careful next time you make any attempt to use Wikipedia platform to propagate this false, highly controversial unsourced material.--AsceticRosé 13:46, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:08, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

The lead makes little sense

The history of the Jews in Khaybar flourished in Khaybar during the 7th century" – how can a history flourish? "now located some 95 miles (153 km) to the north of Medina" – why "now"? It hasn't moved. Maproom (talk) 06:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Questionable or biased source.

The below sentence should be removed as the statement is possibly anti-sematic and the source for it is not an appropriate one. Emmetfahy (talk) 13:39, 13 June 2023 (UTC) "However, these commercial activities led to some resentment that is similar to the economic causes that were behind persecutions in many other countries throughout history." Emmetfahy (talk) 13:39, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

References

"Review of Religions" source contains "genocide"?

@Bro The Man, you added the string "rallying an army of 10,000 to genocide" with source[1] which appears to be tagged with an incorrect author by the cite database, but is actually by Farrukh Tahir, Tariq Mahmood, is this the right source? It appears to be about the same thing, but I didn't find the string "genocide" in the text. Is there a longer treatment of the article somewhere? Now, I do find this in the article An army of 10,000 to 15,000 (or according to other narrations, 24,000) soldiers at the city limits of Madinah. A treacherous Jewish tribe within the city of Madinah. As the enemy forces attacked at the borders, the Muslims were also forced to focus their limited resources on protecting the inner streets of the city from the Jews that had betrayed them. But unless it says genocide, that'd be misrepresenting the source or perhaps WP:OR/WP:SYNTH if you have it somewhere else. But I may have made a mistake, I've been looking at it trying to figure out. Andre🚐 07:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for reaching out. You are correct, the word genocide is not in the referenced article but I chose it in preference to summarise the following excerpt:

""

Accordingly, the Jews were subjected to the very punishment stated in their holy scripture [in accordance to the Medina Peace and Mutual Security Treaty], and they happily accepted. Whilst elaborating on the above circumstances, The Second Caliph (ra) [Umar; who was present and dialogue participant] of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community writes,

" if the Jews had won and the Holy Prophet (sa) had lost, all Muslims – men, women and children – would have been put to death."

''"

If it pleases you, more than happy to replace the word 'genocide' with the phrase "intending to kill all the Muslims of Medina: men, women, and children".

Regarding the citation error, thanks for pointing it out. I just trusted auto cite to do its thing lol.

Once you revert your edit, I will correct the citation error, and will replace the word genocide. Bro The Man (talk) 11:05, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, put to death, is not the same as genocide, the source would need to explicitly say genocide. Also, this would need to be attributed. Just because the Caliph said it doesn't make it true. You could say he thought that. Andre🚐 13:50, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Fair. I'll do that. Bro The Man (talk) 14:32, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and implemented your advice. Thank you :) Bro The Man (talk) 14:46, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. That looks a bit better. I noticed from your contribution history you were adding this to other pages as well. Could you fix those too, please? Appreciate the cooperation. Andre🚐 19:47, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, I removed the ARBPIA portion at the bottom due to WP:ECR Andre🚐 20:15, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I also went back and removed the term genocide from my previous edits. I believe i got them all, i've only ever used it twice anyway. Bro The Man (talk) 10:59, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Andre🚐 18:20, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe there is a methodological issue with including an Islamic narrative about Jewish intentions in the lead section of an article about the history of the Jews of Khaybar. Historical facts about the Jewish community should appear in the lead section. The Muslim account of Jewish plans before the battle, including claims about their intentions to kill Muslims according to Islamic tradition, should be presented in a separate section about the battle itself, with proper attribution to Muslim sources rather than stating it as historical fact. This would be more in line with Wikipedia's approach to organizing historical content versus religious traditions and narratives. The text should clearly indicate when it is citing Islamic sources or traditions rather than presenting their claims as established historical facts. ביקורת (talk) 18:03, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Seems fair Andre🚐 19:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I fixed within the article and see also Battle of Khaybar#Muhammad's casus belli. ביקורת (talk) 22:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)