Talk:History of education in Wales (1870–1939)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the History of education in Wales (1870–1939) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 5, 2024	Good article nominee	Listed

Education Low‑importance

	Education portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of education and education-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EducationWikipedia:WikiProject EducationTemplate:WikiProject Educationeducation articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wales Low‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

GA Review

Passed. It is a wonderful world (talk) 11:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:History of education in Wales (1870–1939)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Llewee (talk · contribs) 14:38, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: It is a wonderful world (talk · contribs) 15:39, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.
a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Comments

Why is citation [1] there?

Some efforts were made to add more of a Welsh emphasis into teaching; this included a limited introduction of the Welsh language into lessons: Should this be re-introduction? Since it had been used before.

I think there is such a difference in context that it wouldn't be especially helpful.--Llewee (talk) 18:42, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All good then It is a wonderful world (talk) 13:50, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The boards were allowed but not required to make education compulsory, a power that was extended to other districts in 1876: It has not been mentioned that boards had been set up in the districts that did not require schools, so when we get to "a power that was extended to other districts in 1876", it is not obvious that the "districts" actually refer to the boards established in the districts that did not require schools.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Boards were only established where there was a lack of schools.--Llewee (talk) 18:42, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I see, was the power to make education compulsory extended to districts without boards? I assumed this wouldn't be possible. It is a wonderful world (talk) 21:32, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That was the impression I got from the source but it doesn't give much detail.--Llewee (talk) 15:03, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing you can do if the source doesn't give detail It is a wonderful world (talk) 13:51, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Compulsory education was also extended to deaf and blind children in 1893: Since all the other acts in this paragraph are named, and for indexing purposes, perhaps we should name this act too (Elementary Education (Blind and Deaf Children) Act 1893).

done--Llewee (talk) 18:42, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His main impact was on Welsh language teaching, which is discussed elsewhere in this article: This section could be linked, and I think a word should be added to clarify that his impact was positive.

done--Llewee (talk) 12:15, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hugh Owen, a retired civil servant, dedicated himself to fundraising: Should mention that he retired because he wanted to dedicate himself to fundraising.

done--Llewee (talk) 15:51, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This lack of radicalism was off-putting for much of the working classes but by 1924 the association had 4,000 students in 200 classes: Repetition of "classes", could this be reworded?

changed to "teaching groups"--Llewee (talk) 19:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the state of women and girl's education needs more coverage, there is only a half paragraph and a few sentences on the subject. Perhaps add a sentence in the lead, and that literacy rates were lower for girls than boys in the 1860s (Jones and Roderick, p. 99), and anything else important to the state of girl's education.

I think the information about literacy is covered in the previous article. I have added more information about female secondary and higher education. The third paragraph under "Aberdare Committee, intermediate schools and evening classes" and fourth paragraph under "Early university colleges" are new editions.--Llewee (talk) 11:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the new additions are great, here is some comments:

Cite "it is to the high moral tone which an educated woman must necessarily give to the home that we must look to furnish the best results of female education" inline.

done--Llewee (talk) 18:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"analyse" -> "analysis"

done--Llewee (talk) 18:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"a decision that appears to have irritated the other students": If this is an opinion, attribute. Otherwise, state as a fact. It is a wonderful world (talk) 13:42, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to "received a negative reaction from the other students"--Llewee (talk) 18:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have already described the general grammatical and MoS mistakes in the previous GA reviews on this topic. I fixed invalid uses of semi-colons, spaces around em-dashes etc. You can wikilink publishers in the bibliography, which looks much better and is occasionally useful for readers. I will wikilink them all now on this article and the previous two in this topic.

Sources

[2]: Text is fully backed up by citation, but what part of the text requires Stephens page 77? It seems to me like it is all supported by page 79.

The final paragraph on 77 gives a summary of the changes over the course of the late 19th century which the first of the paragraph is partly based on.--Llewee (talk) 18:29, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[3]: All good

[4]: All good

[5]: Text fully supported, but why include the information about deaf and blind children, but not the almost identical legislation that happened six years later for physically-impaired children?

I'm not sure if I missed this or if its been added recently but I have now fixed it.--Llewee (talk) 18:45, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[10]: All good

[17]: All good

[23]: All good

[24]: This doesn't support the text at all, mistake?

Corrected, its 114 if you would like to check.--Llewee (talk) 17:37, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[27]: All good

[20]: All good

[35]: All good

[37]: Needs page numbers

Assuming this is Morgan Thomas, I have added page numbers.--Llewee (talk) 21:12, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[42]: All good

[57]: All good

[60]: All good

Images

Well illustrated and images seem to have correct licenses.

Hello It is a wonderful world, I have answered all your comments now. I have also added some additional information to the late Victorian elementary school section and rewritten parts of the Welsh section based on a book that has recently been released. Sorry, for the slow response to this review. I got distracted by other things.--Llewee (talk) 21:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Llewee I am happy with all your changes and justifications. Passing now. It is a wonderful world (talk) 11:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that educating girls and women in late-19th century Wales was felt to be a way to make them better housewives?

Source: *Jones, Gareth Elwyn; Roderick, Gordon Wynne (2003). History of Education in Wales. University of Wales Press. ISBN 978-0708318089. (page 99)
James, Deborah (November 2001). "'Teaching girls': intermediate schools and career opportunities for girls in the East Glamorgan valleys of Wales, 1896—1914". History of Education. 30 (6): 513–526. doi:10.1080/00467600110072114. ISSN 0046-760X. (pages 519–520)
Jenkins, Beth (2016). "Women's professional employment in Wales 1880-1939" (PDF). Cardiff University. (pages 41, 47, 49)

ALT1: ... that 38% of Welsh university students in 1900 were woman? Source: Jenkins, Beth (2016). "Women's professional employment in Wales 1880-1939" (PDF). Cardiff University. (page 48)
ALT2: ... that the songs taught to Welsh Schoolchildren in the late 19th century included Let English boys their duty do and Hurrah for England? Source: Johnes, Martin (2024). Welsh Not: Elementary Education and the Anglicisation of Nineteenth-Century Wales (PDF). University of Wales Press. ISBN 9781837721818. (pages 352–354)
ALT3: ... that 1930s Welsh schoolchildren were more likely to go to secondary school than their counterparts in England? Source: Jones, Gareth Elwyn; Roderick, Gordon Wynne (2003). History of Education in Wales. University of Wales Press. ISBN 978-0708318089. (pages 128–129)
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eurovision Song Contest 2000

Improved to Good Article status by Llewee (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 14 past nominations.

Llewee (talk) 23:22, 5 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Nice work on this Llewee! Brought to GA on November 5, obviously long enough, very well-written, neutral, decorated with correctly-licensed images. I feel strongly that ALT1 is the most interesting fact here. ALT0 makes me wonder who felt that way—educators? Women? ALT2 doesn't do much for me, and ALT3 is alright. Great work! ꧁Zanahary꧂ 17:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]