Talk:History of Gaza/GA1

GA Review

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Beginning a review here. Notes to come. I will do some copyediting if the changes are straightforward, and post some notes of queries below. I often do many small diffs with explanations in the summaries where needed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:39, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Originally, a Canaanite settlement, it fell under the control of the Ancient Egyptians for roughly 350 years before being conquered by the Philistines who made it one of the principal cities of their pentapolis in the 12th century BCE. - I think the commas are in some wrong places, should it be "Originally a Canaanite settlement, it fell under the control of the Ancient Egyptians for roughly 350 years before being conquered by the Philistines, who made it one of the principal cities of their pentapolis in the 12th century BCE." ?

Done. Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

receiving grants and attention from several different emperors. - "attention"? I (sort of) know what you mean but odd choice of word.

Done. I just removed attention. Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The arrival of the Muslim rulers brought drastic changes, as its churches were transformed into mosques — including the Great Mosque which continues to be in use today. - the example I was expecting was of a church, not a mosque.

Done. I removed everything after mosques and merged it with the following related sentence. Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Might be worth mentioning all the disasters- earthquakes and plague in lead.

I don't think we should mention all of them because it will clutter up the lead which is already quite long. I added the two earthquakes that occurred in the early 20th century. Are there any other ones you see as worth mentioning in the lead? --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have clarified - my idea was not to list earthquakes but mention it had been hit by several earthquakes since antiquity or something like it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

NB: First para of Bronze Age section has no dates or date ranges in it. Some would be good to know when we are talking about.

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Tell as-Sakan's economy improved... - why not just "Tell as-Sakan prospered" ?

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

..and it suffered economic decline --> "and it declined economically" (?)

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Thus, the site was virtually abandoned and remained so throughout the Early Bronze Age II. - "Thus" is redundant here I think.

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

but in 2250, the area experienced a total collapse of civilization and all of the cities in the Gaza region were abandoned by the 23rd century BCE. --> whoa, do we know why? If not, then stating the cause is unknown is needed.

I can't find it in the source I used. If I have no luck finding it in other source, I'll just put unknown. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Tell al-Ajjul began to grow more inland along the Wadi Ghazza riverbed. - ambiguous. did the settlement spread inland or did it arise more inland?

Done. Clarified. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The city finally ceased to exist in the 14th century, at the end of the Bronze Age. - do we know why?

Again, I'll try to find some info to elaborate on why it ceased to exist, but if I'm an unable, I'll have to insert "unknown".

The present-day city of Gaza began to develop.. - well, it wasn't the present day city in Ancient Egypt. Maybe "A city sited on what is now present-day Gaza began to develop.." or "A city which would become present-day Gaza began to develop.." or something like it (?)

Done. I used the second suggestion. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The attack by Cambyses I was resisted in 529 BCE.. - "An attack by Cambyses I was resisted in 529 BCE.." (?) sounds odd, as if the attack was especially notable.

Done. I think I fixed this issue. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

In 96 BCE, the Hasmonean king Alexander Jannaeus besieged the city for a year and the inhabitants, who had hoped for help from the Nabatean king Aretas II, were killed and their city destroyed by Jannaeus when did not come to their aid. - I think something is missing from this sentence - bit long anyway and probably better split.

Done. Yes, I clarified and split the sentence. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

which grew to have a busy port and become a locus of trade.. --> to be a busy port? How about "which became a busy port and locus of trade..."

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

the local Tyche. - "the local goddess Tyche."? or form thereof?

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The church was insignificant and were not allowed to hold political office. --> "The church was insignificant and its members were not allowed to hold political office." (?)

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

NB: There is a bit of a jump here, one minute the christians are insignificant, the next this Porphyrius guy is demolishing all the pagan temples. Any possibility to expand on how this came about?

Done. I expanded the whole period of Christianity in Gaza, including its transition from being a strongly pagan city to generally Christian one. I will add a little more on the state of the religion in the sixth and seventh centuries later. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

its churches were transformed into mosques, including the present Great Mosque of Gaza - again, listing what the mosque was before it was a mosque makes more sense here.

Done. Clarified - the Cathedral of John the Baptist became the Great Mosque.--Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Who is St. Willibald?

Done. He was an Anglo-Saxon bishop who traveled to Palestine in the 8th century. Linked him in the article. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

and around 909, the influence of the Fatimids from Egypt started to grow, leading to a slow decline of Gaza, although the important port of Maiuma was flourishing. - I don't quite follow this - is Maiuma the port of Gaza, or is it just nearby? Also why did the Fatimid influence result in a decline, are they linked?

Maiuma is the port of Gaza. None of the sources give the reason why it declined, but I don't think the Fatimids are the reason because Gaza remained a large city and a key stop on the Egyptian caravan. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

..Akboga Safawi, plotted treason against the sultan Barquq - "plotted to kill" ? Wouldn't say plotted treason, plotted to commit treason maybe..

Done. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

In the last para of the Twentieth century section, there is nothing on how Gaza was governed and policed during Israeli rule from 67-93. This will obviously be very tricky to elaborate on but does need a neutral sentence or three, if possible. I am not familiar with the history of Gaza, was there an influx of Jewish settlers to Gaza city who then left/were removed after this time? I guess also in this 67-93 period, were the law enforcement and authority israeli? How did it all mesh together? When was there a palestinian police from etc. Was the mayor and council officials always palestinian or was there a hiatus from 67-93? Anything along these lines as an overview would be helpfulCasliber (talk · contribs) 04:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I hope my most recent additions have addressed these concerns in the article. I request that you read it yourself and if possible try to neutralize some of the terms which may be incendiary since it involves the I-P conflict i.e. the terms "Organized armed struggle" and "local resistance". These terms are quite accurate and are used by the source, but they might be seen as WP:POV. Is there any way you could fix this. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:49, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this has been an issue that has irked me for months. I can't seem to find much detail on Gaza's history during the direct Israeli occupation. I mentioned the establishment of the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood, but couldn't get much more. I posted a notice on the WP:Palestine talk page requesting assistance in this matter so hopefully we'll get some results from that. I'll continue to look for information anyway. As for Jewish settlement in the city itself, there was none. There may have been a handful of Jewish residents but there was Jewish settlement in Gaza City after 1929. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I have been thinking - I guess here would be to clarify how big or little the settlement was pre 1929 (numbers?), and then between 1967 and 1993 - i.e. it is notable if there was no resettlement by Jewish settlers in Gaza city itself (unlike, say, Hebron), and then maybe where nearest ones were (?) I recall seeing settlers being evicted from the Gaza strip only a few years ago. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

The Jewish presence in Gaza in 1929 consisted of 50 families. The nearest Israeli settlement was Netzarim (settlement), built 5 miles away in 1972. I'll mention this with a source shortly. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:49, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

That estimate is fine. I have a question though, was the military governor of Gaza Israeli in the aftermath of 1967? Has there been a discussion on the use of the term "organised armed struggle"? Looks good, and I cannot see a problem with the term but will wait to see what discussion there has been. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I have clarified that the military governor of the Gaza Strip was Israeli. The term also seems accurate to me, I just wanted to make sure you thought it was neutral. Is there anything else that needs to be done in this section? I will try to find some info on the 1980's in Gaza City. --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Overall, looks pretty good - only some minor bits missing and I have copyedited bits and pieces. The sourcing is fair, but would be nice to get more variety for FAC if that is where this is going. Have at it and I will answer questions as well. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Conclusion

I have read over it again, I think we're there WRT Good Article criteria, as there are no 'deal-breakers' left in the bits above. Consider unstruck points as a launching post to a Featured Article candidacy, which I think is achievable. Feel free to ping me for questions later if you want to pursue this. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)