Talk:Hispanics in the United States Marine Corps

Cpl. Gutierrez

I read in an unsourced report two days ago that José Antonio Gutierrez, first marine to die in the second Gulf War, was killed by FRIENDLY fire. Could someone please check this out thoroughly? I'm reluctant to edit a "sensitive" detail without certainties, but work doesn't leave me enough time for in-depth research. Thanks, fellow Wikiheads. Issar El-Aksab (talk) 13:37, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• I for one hate the term "Friendly fire" because there is nothimg friendly about it. However that is the coined term meaning that he was killed by his fellow Americans. I did some google search under "José Antonio Gutierrez - friendly fire" and all sources point to the fact that he did not die from wounds recieved from the so-called enemy, but from his own men thus the stupid term "friendly fire". Tony the Marine (talk) 15:41, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Homeofheroes.com

This concerns homeofheroes.com I saw this edit. Has there been a discussion on the reliability of Homeofheroes.com? The website itself may "cite" other books, but as a personal website it itself should not be cited. That makes it a tertiary source. Why don't we cite the books themselves?

WhisperToMe (talk) 01:45, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Another reason why I would personally switch to another source: Use of unreliable sources can jeopardize an article's "good article" status. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:51, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

HomeOfHeroes is openly a personal project website and is not a reliable source. It's a "useful" website, though, as it cites real books and other published sources, that we can use as real references for Wikipedia articles. While it may be ok to use links to this website to "illustrate" otherwise offline reliable sources, we can't just put those webpages as real references. --damiens.rf 18:08, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I also notice a lot of "bare" citations that need filling in. This article should have its sources evaluated. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:08, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

General Officers

Major General David C Garza USMC

Major General David C. Garza, USMC, (Retired) Biography Major General Garza was born in Los Fresnos, Texas and began his career in the United States Air Force in 1969 as a Heavy Equipment Engineer. In 1970 after his military occupational skill training he deployed to the Republic of South Vietnam for a 19 month tour of duty. In September 1971 he returned to the United States and in 1973 he closed out his Air Force career with an Honorable Discharge at the rank of Sergeant. Following his discharge from the Air Force he attended Texas A&M University and in 1977 graduated with a Bachelor of Science Degree. In 1978 he returned to military service in the United States Marine Corps as a Second Lieutenant of Infantry. In 1999 he earned a Masters Degree in National Security and Strategic Studies from the Naval War College in Newport Rhode Island. In an exciting and rewarding 34 year journey Major General Garza served in world-wide assignments as a Commander, Director, and Staff Officer. His most important personal awards are his Combat Action Ribbons and The Order of Saint Maurice in the rank of Primicerius presented to him by the National Infantry Association for his selfless service to the infantryman and the nation. He retired from active service after 38 years.

John L. Estrada

To:User:2604:2000:C587:2F00:8854:1BA3:EA85:B828,

Just because a person was born in Trinidad and is of African descent does not mean that he is "not" Hispanic. "Estrada" is a Spanish surname. Origin of the surname "Estrada" from the Estrada Family History:

Spanish and Catalan: habitational name from any of the numerous places in Spain and Portugal named Estrada, from estrada ‘road’, Latin stata (via) (from sternere ‘to strew or cover’), a term denoting a paved way.

Plus, Trinidad was once a Spanish territory governed by Juan Ponce de Leon II. Brief History: The island of Trinidad was a Spanish colony from the arrival of Christopher Columbus in 1498 until Spanish governor Don José María Chacón surrendered the island to a British fleet under the command of Sir Ralph Abercromby in 1797. During the same period, the island of Tobago changed hands among Spanish, British, French, Dutch and Courlander colonizers more times than any other island in the Caribbean. Trinidad and Tobago were ceded to Britain in 1802 under the Treaty of Amiens as separate states and unified in 1889. Trinidad and Tobago obtained independence in 1962 and became a republic in 1976.

Estrada is not an African American. He is a citizen of Trinidad of both African and Hispanic descent. If the United States Marine Corps, a respected military branch of the United States, has stated that Estrada is Hispanic, then so be it.[1]

It must also be noted that there are many Hispanics/Latinos of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race, who moved and live in Trinidad? I guess not. Quote from Quora:

Spanish is spoken in Trinidad and Tobago but the official language is the Queen’s English (British).

That being said, Spanish has been spoken here for many years by the descendants of Spanish settlers and migrants from neighboring Venezuela. The Spanish-speaking population in Trinidad has been growing at an alarming rate in recent years due to the surge of migrants fleeing the political and economic situation in Venezuela..

Spanish has been taught in schools at the secondary level for many years now and has been adopted as the “second” language in Trinidad and Tobago. The signs in the cities and boroughs now carry the English and Spanish versions of the street’s name.

An unestimated number of Venezuelans and Colombians are in Trinidad. Venezuela is only 6-12 miles away at closest (nearer than Tobago is).

For 3 centuries of Spanish control, Trinidad was part of the Vice-Royalty of New Granada but sparsely populated since it had been hard to attract gold-obsessed Spaniard settlers.

Tony the Marine (talk) 05:37, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

References

The basis of this article is somewhat racist or language-ist in assuming that "Hispanic" was notable.

Does it really make a difference how many of what national background or language are in the Marines? Or is color blind integration the proper perspective?(PeacePeace (talk) 19:58, 8 April 2019 (UTC))

• Unfortunately it does. This is not about language nor national background since "Hispanic" is an ethnicity and not a "race". For your information people in this country have been discriminated against because of the color of their skin and beliefs, and the military was no exception to the rule. The contributions made by the minority groups to this country were omitted from our history books up until the 1960's when the contributions made by the African-Americans were recognized. Now, there is even an African-American month. The contributions made by Hispanics to this country and their sacrifices during their military service were and still are ignored. Racism has affected our country even in the military. This article tells about the positive contributions which Hispanics have made as members of the elite United States Marines Corps. There are many articles about the contributions which different minority groups have made in this country in Wikipedia. The one important thing about this particular article is that it was requested by the Pentagon. Tony the Marine (talk) 01:55, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

References

The present tense needs to be largely revised out of this article & statements dated

Statements about how many Hispanics are in the Marines quickly becomes false as time passes. Such statements in this article are based on citations from 2002 -- now it is 2019! Article needs editing for time. Most or all of the present tense statements need to be changed to dated past tense. Not: "There are 20,000 Hispanic Marines in Afghanistan," but: "As of April, 2019, there WERE 20,000 Hispanic Marines in Afghanistan." (PeacePeace (talk) 20:01, 8 April 2019 (UTC))

Is "Hispanic" a clear concept or like nailing jello to the wall?

What does Hispanic mean? A person born in a Spanish speaking country who is fluent in Spanish, but does not know English? Does it include bilinguals? Does it include persons born in a Spanish speaking country who came to USA at 1 year of age, who now does not know Spanish & speaks only English? Persons born to Spanish speaking persons who understand Spanish perfectly, but cannot speak it? Persons born in USA to one Spanish speaking parent & one gringo? The variations are many. Does the term apply exclusively to those who self-identify as Hispanic? What if neither those nor their parents ever spoke Spanish?(PeacePeace (talk) 20:06, 8 April 2019 (UTC))

• When I joined the Marine Corps, the phrase was not even coined then. You were either White, Black or Asian. But, leave it to our government to invent the phrase to be used in the census and to further divide this country into groups. However, since you do not even know the meaning which was given to the term, then let me help you:

Hispanic is an ethnic term employed to categorize any citizen or resident of the United States, of any racial background, of any country, and of any religion, who has at least one ancestor from the people of Spain or is of non-Hispanic origin, but has an ancestor from Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central or South America, or some other Hispanic origin. The three largest Hispanic groups in the United States are the Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans and Cubans. People of Spain and their direct descendants in the United States are not considered of "Hispanic" ethnicity, but rather as Europeans or European Americans of European (Spanish) origin in accordance to the established definition of the term.

Tony the Marine (talk) 23:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

References

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• US Marine Corps War Memorial (Iwo Jima Monument) near Washington DC.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:30, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

Hispanics in the United States Marine Corps

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Overwhelming consensus to delist. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

This 2009 listing contains significant uncited material, meaning it does not meet GA criterion 2b). There are also problems with criterion 3b), as the article doesn't know what it is about and is overloaded with tangents on the lives of individual Hispanic Marines, and criterion 4), as the wikivoice tone is distinctly non-neutral.

I am additionally unsure whether the article really meets the notability criteria, but that is not within the purview of GAR. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:23, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

• Many of these articles are essentially train wrecks. I've been involved with a few, and there's always a great deal of work involved getting them into shape. Typically you have to check every citation and source, since they are often either misused or misrepresented. Here's an example of one that's similar. Getting this to GAR will take some serious work. Intothatdarkness 21:03, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
• Delist per nom. Schierbecker (talk) 01:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Keep as is - This is a Good article which has 156 reliable sources to back up it's content. The article in itself is important to the Hispanic community whose contributions to the United States and the world in general have often been overlooked or ignored in the history books and so on. Tony the Marine (talk) 02:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Delist per nom and my earlier note. Getting this article up to standard will take a great deal of work, and if past experience is any indicator that work won't get done. I don't disagree about the importance of the subject itself, but the topic deserves much better than what we see here. Intothatdarkness 12:55, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Delist per nom. Particularly per 3b; article is all over the place. ——Serial 13:02, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
• Delist lead isn't written in an encyclopaedic manner. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:46, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
• Delist per nom and Into the Darkness. Neither I nor anyone else who has comment is suggesting that the article be removed, only that the classification be lowered unless more work than is likely to be done is both promised and done promptly. If one or more editors want to put in the work to fix the apparent problems after delisting, and maybe to split it into more than one article, it can be nominated for another GA assessment. Donner60 (talk) 08:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
• Delist as per previous noms. This article may have been deemed GA back in 2009, but GA criteria has tightened up considerably since then. It is now a long way from current GA standards and a lot of work is needed to bring it up to scratch. Zawed (talk) 09:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.