Talk:Hess Educational Organization

Untitled

Hess has published many supplements to it's primary curriculum. However the games and create a comic that a user insists upon adding are hardly worth mentioning as published materials. In fact they are hardly ever referenced and new teachers are often discouraged from playing the games mentioned.

(Personal attack removed)

As an expert on the writer and the organization, I'm taking it down.

It's not a personal attack if it A. Doesn't mention someone by name B. happens to be true. I don't want to see any more about the comic or the games on this page. Skettios 11:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki is not the place to bash people either on Wiki or in real life. The fact you don't mention a name makes it no less a personal attack; you're accusing someone of something you have no proof for. Also, your claimed expertise is far from established, especially since you clearly don't even know what the comic project really was. So your credibility is far from what would be considered an "expert" in the field. As a newcomer, remember to brush up on WP:CIVIL and other policies to avoid making mistakes when editing. Xuanwu 08:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Xuanwu, I'm not a newcomer. To my knowledge you've always been able to edit Wikipedia without a username, and can continue that practice to this day. Thank you for your welcome, but I assure you it's unnecessary. As someone who really enjoys wikipedia, I get angry when I see users mention their personal projects in articles (see WP:VANITY). Perhaps my response was a little out of line, but I can see from the page history that you've re-edited descriptions of games and comics into this article many times. I do know what the comic project was, I'm the one threw it away. I do have proof of the things I said, that you have removed, fortunately I believe in the principle of no original research, so I will merely delete instead of pontificating. I feel that these things were entirely appropriate on a discussion page, especially after you reinserted the description. I'm finished discussing this, but if you claim to value wikipedia, you should consider abiding by it's precepts. Skettios 19:29, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

• Your username is new, which is why I gave you the welcome message. If you've edited under an IP address, please associate those edits with your current username. Then you won't be assumed to be a new editor. On the subject of original research, I agree that the article needs some citations. Looking at your previous edits, you haven't offered ay proof of your claim that new teachers are told not to use the games that were mentioned, so I don't know what you're referring to when you say I removed your evidence. Xuanwu 02:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Also writing that Hess "claims to" protect it's kindergarten teachers is merely opinion. Skettios 11:26, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Adding Citations

Per WP:RS, I think Hess's own website will suffice to cite most of the claims in the article concerning what Hess teachers, how it teachers, and what programs it offers, as it qualifies as basic biographical info. Citations need to be made of Hess's published course books in the explanation of their teaching style. I think Hess itself counts as a reputable publisher due to the peer editing of its books and status in the industry (it's not a small fly-by-night publishing house and it does have education experts on its payroll), so its own books satisfy WP:V to an extent sufficient for this article. I've marked several spots with the "citation needed" template where citing Hess books won't do - these sentences need 3rd party comments to back them up. Xuanwu 03:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Citations

We are probably not going to find citations for this stuff, I'm not going to point the finger for original research since I contributed some of it, I also don't know where to find citations. Should we take it down? Skettios 14:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

RE: "Staff Turnover and Morale"

The information listed in this section of the page is incorrect. Attempts have been made to edit it or delete, but users have restored the incorrect information.

Hess' teacher turnover is not 65%+ in the first 3 months. This is easy to work out by using simple numbers. Hess employs around 500 foreign teachers. Hess hires around 250 new teachers a year. 65%+ turnover in 3 months would mean the need to hire over 500 new teachers a year. Clearly, this doesn't happen so the 65%+ number is incorrect.

Statements in the article about the treatment and pay of Taiwan staff unsubstantiated with facts. However, some pay facts include: base starting pay around NT$28,000 per month, plus overtime for extra classes plus bonuses for returning students (taking the total to between NT$30-35,000 per month). This is less than the Taiwan average wage (approx NT$43,000 per month), but this is an entry-level position so not at all unusual.

EDIT: (Different user) Most college graduates make less than NT$30,000 per month after graduation. Working at Hess is also not a full-time position for many teachers, in terms of actual hours spent in classes. The real injustice is the proportional payments of the NST for 20 hours vs. the CT for 40 hours. This also causes some tensions between the two working groups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.204.128.82 (talk) 13:40, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Please refrain from unsubstantiated attacks - we are happy to provide figures to support facts, as long as they are in line with our confidentiality policies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.228.198.60 (talk) 02:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Apologies - not logged in - this section above written by Hesswork. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hesswork (talk • contribs) 02:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)