Talk:Hermann Herlitz

Birth place

@Verbcatcher: Thanks for your retouched photo and edits. The book used as a main reference says:

"Hermann Herlitz was born on 10 June 1834 at Neisse, Silesia, Prussia (now Nysa, Poland)"

and the Wendish source (by the same author) says:

"Hermann Herlitz was born on the 10th of June 1834 in the Prussian Province of Silesia in the town of Neisse, now Nysa in Poland"

Nysa, Poland says "(German: Neisse or Neiße)" and does not mention Neesa. I'm not concerned about the issue but are you sure "Neesa" is the right name? Johnuniq (talk) 07:14, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

My mistake, thanks for spotting this. I was relying on our Nysa, Poland article, but I got it wrong. Should we say that the town was in Upper Silesia, Silesia, Prussia, Germany or the in the German Empire? Upper Silesia is misleading as the Province of Upper Silesia was not established until 1919. I want to make it clear that he was not born in Poland, but this article is not the place to go into the history of the area. On reflection, I now think we should give "Neisse, Silesia, Prussia (now Nysa, Poland)" in the main text and "Neisse, Prussia" in the infobox (the infobox is intended as a summary). Many readers will know that Prussia was a German state. I am unclear whether we should give the version with the 'ß' – is this a different name or a different way of writing the same name (perhaps equivalent to '&' or 'and' in English)? Verbcatcher (talk) 18:33, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

What you put in the article looks good, thanks. Johnuniq (talk) 23:09, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Date and location of photo

@Johnuniq: you have established the date of the photo as 1857. However, c:File:Hermann Herlitz at the Basel Mission.jpeg says Hermann Herlitz (1834–1920) around 1860 at the Basel Mission where he studied from 1859 to 1862. Can you confirm Herlitz's dates in Basel? Perhaps this photo taken in London. Verbcatcher (talk) 04:17, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Here is what the Herbert Mees book says (slightly paraphrased):

• Herlitz arrived in Basel in August 1857 (p. 85).
• Due to an affair, he was not admitted at that time but left the mission in November 1857 and entered Maienbuehl, a private correctional institution run on pietist principles (p. 85).
• He resumed at Basel in February 1859 and was ordained in August 1862 (p. 85).
• After being ordained he spent a month with his relatives in Neisse (p. 86).
• After Neisse he went to London and departed on a 69-day voyage, arriving in Port Phillip (Melbourne) in January 1863 (p. 86).
• He started work at Germantown in January 1863 (p. 519).
• A cropped version of the photo is on p. 85 with caption "Hermann Herlitz (1834–1920) as a student at the Basel Mission Seminary, 1857".

In other words, yes, he studied from 1859 to 1862 at Basel. The last point (the caption of the cropped photo) is conclusive. Johnuniq (talk) 04:48, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Was Herlitz admitted to the seminary in 1857 and rapidly suspended due to an affair, or was he not admitted until 1859? If it is not clear that he was enrolled in 1857 then the caption is misleading. Was the Maienbuehl institution in Basel? If so we could say he was a student in Basel from 1857 to 1862. I suggest you add the date of his arrival in Australia. Regards, Verbcatcher (talk) 05:50, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

The photo was probably taken in the period from August to November 1857 when Herlitz was in Basel. The exact wording re August is as above, while for November it is "he left the Basel Mission Society on 5 November 1857, and entered Maienbuehl". For "he left" to be true, he must have been physically at the mission for at least a short period and it is possible that those being admitted had an official photograph. I don't think there is any way to resolve that but given the last point above (about the caption on the cropped photo) I don't think there is a problem with the caption in this article. Re the date of arrival in Australia, the article includes "After arriving in Victoria on 23 January 1863" and the previous sentence mentions "Victoria, Australia". Is that enough? Johnuniq (talk) 06:15, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

I agree, the caption is ok because it does not say that he was a student at the mission when the photo was taken. I have updated the descriptions on the Commons pages. I suggested giving the date for his arrival in Australia because you he was the first graduate of his mission to arrive there − saying something was the first leads one to ask when it happenned. How about this?

• After studying at the Basel Mission Society, Herlitz was ordained on 17 August 1862, and in January 1863 was the first of their graduates to arrive in Australia.

But perhaps we have too many dates. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:38, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

I see what you mean, that is better. I added it. Unfortunately the two factoids are on different pages in the ref and the result of adding citations is a little klunky but I suppose precision is good. Johnuniq (talk) 01:35, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Class B assesment

After reading the article, I upgraded the quality assesment to Class B, checking the relevant criteria. Congratulations to the editors! I had some reservations about the notability of this person but I suppose it has to do with his Jewish parents and his tenures as a president of Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Victoria and Evangelical Lutheran General Synod. Nxavar (talk) 08:45, 2 May 2019 (UTC)