Talk:Henry of Essex

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His second wife

The section on his family was badly confused, asserting first that his daughter Agnes (who married Aubrey de Vere) was by his second wife, and second that his second wife was "Alice de Montfort." Complete Peerage and the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography were cited in support of these assertions. Neither of these sources say any such thing. The ODNB article on Henry of Essex calls his first wife Cecily "the mother of most or all of his children" and identifies his second wife as "Alice, probably the daughter (or possibly the widow) and heir of Robert de Vere (d. c. 1151)." The ODNB article on Agnes of Essex identifies her as a daughter of Henry of Essex and his first wife Cecily. Complete Peerage vol. X, p. 206, calls Agnes, wife of Aubrey de Vere, "da. of Henry de Essex, Lord of Rayleigh and Haughley, by his wife Cicely." pnh (talk) 16:25, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See https://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-kent/vol8/pp14-27

The Complete Peerage is good, but not perfect. Henry had to be married to his second wife when Agnes was born because he was already constable in 1151, an office that came to him as the husband of the heiress to the office. Cecily therefore must have died in the later 1140s. The Montfort connection was through his second wife's mother, apparently; Alice was in fact the daughter (some say widow) of Robert de Vere, apparently no relation or only distantly related to Aubrey de Vere. Robert was son of Bernard de Vere and royal constable to Henry I and Stephen.DeAragon 21:28, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Untitled

The Latin version of his name is de Essex' but there is no reason to "Frenchify" his surname. His father was Robert fitz Swein of Essex or Robert of Essex, and Swein is an Anglo-Saxon, not a Norman, name. The title of this article should properly be the English translation of "de Essexa": of Essex. DeAragon 08:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Swein de Essex

Swein is shown in this article as Swein fitz Wimarca; The Domesday Book, Suffolk folio 401 shows the father of Swein of Essex as Robert, not Wimarca ^[1]. Domesday Descendants ^[2] give the descent as 1. Unknown, m Wimarca (female) 2. Robert fitz Wimarc (staller to Edward the Confessor 3. Swein de Essex 4. Robert de Essex aka fitz Swein 5. Henry de Essex aka fitz Robert, TruGenealogist (talk) 22:10, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Domesday Descendants is a notoriously unreliable source, unfortunately. Robert father of Swein of Essex was a Norman who had apparently come to England with Edward the Confessor in the 1040s and was given land in Essex and elsewhere. Robert's mother was most likely Wimarc (no 'a' at the end), but that was not a common Norman name for females. It has been suggested that it was a Breton name. The Normans and Bretons were in contact during the late 10th and early 11th centuries, so this is not an unlikely match. Robert's father was reputedly Ansfrid of Normandy. DeAragon 17:40, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

What is the primary source for this reputed Ansfrid? Zoetropo (talk) 06:21, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wimarc (Wymarc, Wymark, hence the English surname) is a name of Breton origin: it was used by either sex. Zoetropo (talk) 06:06, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source fot Wimarc as a name for either sex? All my sources say it was a female name.DeAragon 21:27, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

References

^ The Domesday Book, A Complete Translation, Dr. Ann Williams and Professor G. H. Martin, eds., Penguin Books, Bath, England, 2004, p. 1269
^ Domesday Descendants, A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166, Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., The Boydell Press, St. Edmunds, Suffolk, 2002, pp. 449-451;p. 937;

Statement in contradiction to death date and pedigree

The current text misleadingly asserts: "Henry was the son and heir of Robert fitz Swein of Essex, a pre-conquest English landowner who was favoured by King Edward the Confessor." Since neither Robert fitz Swein nor Swein of Essex is the pre-conquest landowner referenced here, but rather Swein's father Robert son of Wymarc, that sentence requires correction. Zoetropo (talk) 06:15, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] The Domesday Book, A Complete Translation, Dr. Ann Williams and Professor G. H. Martin, eds., Penguin Books, Bath, England, 2004, p. 1269

[2] Domesday Descendants, A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166, Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., The Boydell Press, St. Edmunds, Suffolk, 2002, pp. 449-451;p. 937;

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