Talk:Henry Smith (lynching victim)

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Notability?

What's the consensus on this meeting notability standards? 74.193.86.219 (talk) 07:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since this event was contemporaneously covered in the New York Times and was attended by thousands of people, it certainly meets the minimum standards for notability

Moreover, this is a famous lynching that's received a great deal of scholarly attention. Davenoon (talk) 17:50, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Accuracy

A "former slave", yet born in 1876? Source? 157.130.130.150 (talk) 21:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited this to African-American. Slavery ended in the US with the end of the Civil War in 1865.PumpkinSky talk 11:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But there is more yo question about his birth date. 1876 would make him 17 or 18 at the time of his lynching and he is described as alcoholic. Other articles describe him as middle aged and say he had a wife.

If he were in his 40s it would be possible that he was a former slave, though he would have been a child. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.134.50.151 (talk) 19:39, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources, deletion?

I noticed this article has no sources and seems to draw opinions. Also without sources the article seems to fall into a notability question. Anyone have an opinion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.180.111.179 (talk) 19:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some relevant contemporary sources I have found through the Texas Historical Newspapers Database: "The Paris Horror", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, January 29, 1893, pg 1. "Myrtle Vance Murder", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, January 31, 1893, pg 2. "Capture of Smith", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 1, 1893, pg 1. "Horror of Horrors", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 2, 1893, pg 1. "The Paris Horror", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 3, 1893, pg 1. "What The Paris Mob Means", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 3, 1893, pg. 4. "The State Press", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 10, 1893, pg 4. "Hogg's Special Message", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 15, 1893, pg 4. "The Bill Vetoed", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 16, 1893, pg 1. "Texas Abroad", Dallas Morning News Historical Archive, February 27, 1893, pg 6.

These articles chronologically detail the discovery of the crime, pursuit and capture of Mr. Henry Smith, and his lynching. Additionally, the articles touch on local, national, and international responses and the reaction of Texas Governor Jim Hogg. Gov Hogg was born in Rusk, Texas which is less than an hour from Paris, Texas. I'd love to do something with these, but maybe someone else has more time. Hope these help.

SamWinnTx (talk) 18:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, these sources contain some clues to the question of special rail arrangements (which were previously edited out of the article). They also indicate that Henry Smith was a possible alias for Bob Dowery.

SamWinnTx (talk) 19:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no question that this was a notable lynching. It was notorious in its time.

Title uses weasel words

The phrasing of the title of the article is meant to insinuate that he was somehow innocent, when the objective facts are that it is now impossible to determine either way. I see no reason why putting "lynching victim" in the title is in anyway necessary other than to conceal a conclusion that cannot be rightfully made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.234.60.140 (talk) 20:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

'Lynching victim' is completely correct. The title needs to identify the subject of the article from all the other 'Henry Smiths', and as the individual's notability is entirely in relation to his lynching mentioning that is fine. The word 'victim' is also correct as it's being used in a technical sense, one is a 'victim' of a crime, lynching is unlawful and therefore murder, so individuals are 'victims' of lynching regardless of whether or not they have committed crimes or are lovely people or whatever.130.216.68.96 (talk) 08:21, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Editorializing the story in absence and sometimes contrary to the given evidence

″a policeman known for his cruelty to prisoners″

Perhaps this is true but there is no reference to it in any of the citations.

″When the police found no clues to the child's death, people in the area decided Smith must have committed the crime in retaliation for his treatment at Vance's hands.″

Smith was the last person seen in Myrtle Vance's company. Police reported he confessed to the crime. Granted, false confessions are a reality in criminology, but it is not the case that the only evidence against Smith was that the child's father had beaten him with a billy club.

″Learning that he had been accused, Smith fled to Hope, Arkansas.″

Smith seems to have fled before the body was discovered.

″Henry Smith [...] would likely have attended its segregated schools.″

Irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manawyddan (talk • contribs) 20:56, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I intend to add further details of the crime based on the NYTimes telling, of the manhunt, and of the lynching itself including that everyone, including the US marshall escorting him to Paris, TX and eventually Smith himself, knew he would be handed over to the mob.

Manawyddan (talk) 20:26, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Henry Smith (lynching victim)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Henry Smith was most likely not a former slave. Slavery was abolished 30 years earlier, and Smith does not look to be older than 30 years old.

Thanks

jroehl2@yahoo.com

Last edited at 18:53, 7 January 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 17:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Plausibility of attendance numbers versus space occupied by attendants

The article states that "A large crowd of from 5,000 to 15,000 people packed into an area of as little as 400 sq yards (335 sq meters)". This seems highly implausible. That's 15 to 45 people per square meter. The maximum safe amount of people per square meter is estimated to be about 5 per square meter, with 10 being an extremely high risk upper limit. Duivelwaan (talk) 20:53, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There is another source with slightly different numbers, perhaps I'll use that. Carptrash (talk) 18:35, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Other lynching victims named Henry Smith

I found that there were at least five other lynching victims named Henry Smith, such as one hanged by a mob on August 12, 1893 in Clarke Alabama; one in Hinds on May 25, 1894 hanged; one in Prarie Arkansas hanged July 11, 1881; one named William Henry Smith hanged and riddled with bullets in Whythe on July 11, 1888; and one in Jefferson Alabama hanged on November 16, 1890. Shouldn’t there be articles on those people and this article should be renamed “Henry Smith (Texas lynching victim) to clear up confusion? He wasn’t the only person named Henry Smith that was lynched 68.147.176.141 (talk) 00:43, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Date of physician's report

The date of the physician's report is the date prior to the date when the search for the child was conducted. 74.108.230.210 (talk) 18:22, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pinkerton investigation

According to Ida B. Wells' autobiography, she paid Pinkerton to investigate the case that led to the lynching of Henry Smith, but they failed to actually investigate and merely sent her newspaper articles and a photo of the child. I would like to know if a follow up investigation ever occurred. 74.108.230.210 (talk) 18:25, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

James Pleasant

I cut this para from the end of the page.

NOTE: Henry Vance did not have a brother-in-law named James Pleasant. The literary piece was thought to be compiled by a writer of the "Paris Daily News" under the alias.

It may well be true for all I know, but it needs citations if it is to stand. Marnanel (talk) 22:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]