Talk:Henry Fitzalan-Howard, Earl of Arundel

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COI Disclosure

I have added additional, factual information not previously present and cited my Blog. TheSinglePeer (talk) 17:24, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relations

User:Surtsicna removed the following paragraph from the article: "As a Howard, he is related to Elizabeth I of England, Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard. He is also, through the Howards, descended from Edward I of England. He is also descended, through three of his four grandparents, from several illegitimate children of King Charles II{{Citation needed|date=June 2012}}". Although I agree that it needs references, I do not agree that it should be removed altogether. I believe it is fairly well known that he is really related to the people mentioned. --Thorwald (talk) 07:11, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So what if he is related to them? Is that relevant here? If so, how? Surtsicna (talk) 08:32, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Of course it is relevant. He is the future Duke of Norfolk and related to Kings of England. Almost every other article on nobles of this status have similar information. Sigh. --Thorwald (talk) 09:21, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't mean that every other article on nobles of this status should have such trivial information. Being first cousin circa 15 times removed of Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard and second cousin circa 15 times removed of Elizabeth I is hardly standard or useful biographical information. If that is what makes him notable, the article ought not to exist. As for being related to kings of England, aren't you aware that there is hardly a person in England (except for recent immigrants) who is not? Surtsicna (talk) 10:32, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is inconsistent on whether he's a nobleman

Please see my comment at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_Howard,_Earl_of_Surrey . According to Wikipedia's own article "Courtesy titles in the United Kingdom", the subject of this article is a commoner. Ergo the statement "is an English nobleman" is probably wrong. It is possible that the subject of this article holds noble titles in his own right inherited from someone other than his still-living father, but if that is not the case, and the Monarch has not created him in any noble titles of his own, he's not a nobleman. He would not be entitled to any of the prerogatives of a member of the House of Lords even before those prerogatives were whittled down. He wouldn't wear a coronet or robe at ceremonies, and if tried for crimes he couldn't keep commoners off the jury. This article is correct when it says that at one time he was "known as" Lord Maltravers. "Known as" to make the distinction from actually BEING Baron of Maltravers (who would be the person called "Lord Maltravers" if he didn't have higher-ranking titles to enable lending the designations "Arundel" and "Maltravers" to those whose places (while they are alive) in the line of succession are secure rather than presumptive).2604:2000:C6AA:B400:6CF9:3104:2109:6380 (talk) 12:19, 5 September 2015 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson[reply]

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