Talk:Henderson Silver Knights

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Requested move 19 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. DJSasso (talk) 11:50, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Las Vegas AHL team → Henderson Silver Knights – the team ~~with~~ will have Henderson in the name, not Las Vegas. SportsFan007 (talk) 20:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I can find no reliable source which states the team's name, let alone that it will be known by Henderson instead of Las Vegas. Simply because Henderson City Council has approved an arena, is not verification of a name. Reliable sources must be provided here. The most logical and recognizable name and search term is still Las Vegas AHL team. Flibirigit (talk) 08:48, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Flibirigit: source: [1] SportsFan007 (talk) 09:05, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A search on job listing web site is by no means whatsoever an independent and reliable source. Please see WP:RS and find proper news articles to update this Wikipedia article.Flibirigit (talk) 09:12, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: typo corrected in nomination and external link formatted. Flibirigit (talk) 09:17, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. cookie monster (2020) 755 15:40, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Flibirigit and CookieMonster755: New source [2] SportsFan007 (talk) 04:54, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This link is nothing but a press release stating that Henderson City Council has approved an arena. The statement "Henderson's AHL team" is not an official team name. This move request appears frivolous and in violation of WP:CRYSTAL without multiple independent reliable sources. Flibirigit (talk) 07:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. No source has been provided that the team will go by "Henderson". O.N.R. ^(talk) 03:27, 22 May 2020

@Flibirigit, CookieMonster755, and Old Naval Rooftops: New source [3] Here Bill Foley says the team will have Henderson in the name. SportsFan007 (talk) 04:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The source provided needs to be added to the article in question. While it does say the team will use the name Henderson, I am not yet convinced that "Henderson AHL team" is the most logical search term. I prefer to leave the redirect as is until it becomes the dominant search term compared to Las Vegas AHL team. Again, multiple independent reliable sources must be added to the article. Flibirigit (talk) 04:44, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Flibirigit, CookieMonster755, and Old Naval Rooftops: New source [[4]] SportsFan007 (talk) 19:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now that the team has been named, speedy move. O.N.R. ^(talk) 14:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I checked the first source above and it's obviously a primary source being jobs advertised by the team. No case in terms of wp:AT. Andrewa (talk) 23:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrewa: Look at this: [[5]] SportsFan007 (talk) 23:52, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That appears to be based on a press release, which would make it another primary source. Some rather restricted use of primary sources as references in articles is valid, but in deciding what the common name is, they have no relevance. We're not interested here in what the organisation calls itself. The official name should be stated in the article of course, and a primary source is fine to support that. But in choosing an article name we're far more interested in what people with no close connection to the organisation call it. Andrewa (talk) 03:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a serious misunderstanding of the distinction between primary and secondary sources. Nowhere on Wikipedia does it say that primary sources are no good; the only clear injunction is against using primary sources to support notability. WP:NOR holds that a primary source may be used "to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge," as long as no interpretation is derived from the material. Ravenswing 10:36, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support move: It is official now. [[6]] –uncleben85 (talk) 05:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Oppose~~ Support. One source as shown in the support !vote directly above does not make the new name the COMMONNAME. So this name change is TOOSOON. Several more usages of the new name in other reliable, independent, secondary sources are required before the new name can be considered by Wikipedia to be the common name. See also OFFICIALNAME. This does seem to be a makeshift, interim type name, so I agree with uncleben85 that a title change is appropriate. P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there ~~06:07, 29 May 2020 (UTC)~~ 05:45, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do get what you're saying, but I feel like that shouldn't hold to a sports franchise that we were using a placeholder title for because they didn't have a name, after they publicly and officially reveal the name. Las Vegas AHL team was not a 'COMMONNAME' familiar to our readers; it was a placeholder as Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and I feel this is one of the places where common sense can be applied especially if we consider the official announcement I provided and the change in reliable, English-language sources, as Sabbatino provided, after you.–uncleben85 (talk) 16:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per NHL (link already listed by Uncleben85), AHL (the league where they play), team's website, Sportsnet, Las Vegas Review-Journal, NBC Sports, Yahoo! Sports, etc. – Sabbatino (talk) 15:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support: This should no longer be any sort of an issue. For pity's sake, VGK -- y'know, the freaking owners of the franchise -- has the announcement of this non-makeshift, non-interim name as the lead news item on their website, and it's not as if "Las Vegas AHL Team" was ever the common name by any definition ... other than Wikipedia customary habit, that is. Any more opposition is just plain arguing to be contrary. Ravenswing 04:38, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.