Talk:He never married

Original research?

I suspect the article's original research. See the AFD for more, but I'll copypaste ,y basic argument from there:

The 3/4 references used only mention the claim in passing, while the remaining one (the 3rd one) states that it was used as such IN SOME CASES. Something the article doesn't mention

Most importantly, I am not a native speaker, but from what I know the first thing that comes to mind when u hear the phrase "He never married" is that the person in question has - you guessed it - never married.

Why does an article about this phrase exist is an open question, but what's even more interesting is why this article claims that this phrase was used - apparently solely - as a way to refer to closeted homosexuals - without refering to sources that make that claim.

I would think that the phrase referred simply to the literal fact that the deceased never married. If homosexuality was inferred, whether at the time or subsequently, it was more probably from the fact than from the phrase. Koro Neil (talk) 04:02, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Openlydialectic (talk) 06:34, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

The mention of the lack of something is rather odd. If I read the obituary of someone who had never married, I would be surprised to see that fact called out. The very mention of it calls attention to it in such a way as to make the reader ask "So what? Then why mention it?" --Khajidha (talk) 13:26, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Nothing odd about its being used in obituaries 50 and more years ago. It was common to say that someone was survived by their spouse and/or children (generally with names). Where there was no such surviving family, it was quite normal to mention that the person never married. Koro Neil (talk) 04:02, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

One would rather more expect to simply say that they were not succeeded by anyone (or if applicable, who they were succeeded by, and predeceased by respectively), that would itself provide detail as to marriage or lack thereof.

At least in British English it is a rather odd phrase to put in an obituary, and while I cannot comment with certainty on the frequency of it's use as a euphemism (though I am anecdotally aware of it as 'one of the most common euphemisms for being homosexual'), it is definitely odd phrasing.

I'm waiting on getting access to it, but chapter 3 of "On the Offensive Prejudice in Language Past and Present" by Karen Stollznow for the Cambridge University Press seems to possibly mention this euphamism being used. 94.13.35.21 (talk) 15:46, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I’m American and a newspaper writing this feels natural to me. If someone weren’t married and had no children, we’d expect to know. Saying they were succeeded by no one sounds more like they’re trying to sound smart or carefully saying it as if to avoid talking about something, like the death or their wife/husband and all their children. Those are things they typically mention. Thus “he/she was was not succeeded by anyone” would sound strange. The information that wasn’t given would leave us questioning exactly what the newspaper meant by that. The phrase “He/she never married” sounds perfectly normal to my ears. I believe that the phrase “he/she never married” isn’t code except in the fact that some “spinsters” were gay people who didn’t pursue heterosexual relationships. But there are other alternatives: straight people who were still dating people but didn’t marry and may have been single at death to boot, asexuals, swingers who had many partners but no intention of marrying, people who chose not to marry. Marriage is something incredibly important to the social standing of individuals throughout many generations. It’s been less so the past two decades. It’s something people are expected to learn about in a rundown of someone’s life and death. The same with having children, which is implied by “he/she never married” but not necessarily true to all people who never married.

What we need to find out is the writer’s habits. When they were given the message by the deceased’s families that they were homosexuals, which may have been too unusual to reveal but could have happened, did they use the phrase “he/she never married”? When loved ones claimed otherwise, such as that they were looking for a wife/husband, did they rephrase it? Are all people who were unmarried receive it, or were there exceptions? Were those exceptions preceded by information that would indicate that they were obviously unmarried, like being a nun? If someone had children but never married, what phrase was used? Wacape (talk) 10:00, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

"Confirmed bachelor" predates Private Eye

In My Fair Lady, by Lerner and Loewe, Henry Higgins makes the comment, "So here I am, Pickering—a confirmed old bachelor, and likely to remain so." This musical was first performed, starring Rex Harrison and Julie Andrews in 1956, well pre-dating Private Eye. I certainly remember the phrase confirmed bachelor from my childhood in the 1950s and early 60s, though it was a term you were likelier to meet in British sources than hear used in New Zealand where I live. There is no suggestion in the story that Higgins was homosexual, though that doesn't preclude its being used that way elsewhere. Koro Neil (talk) 03:47, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

This article makes no sense

Forgive me, but I don't think this article makes any sense. The first sentence claims 'He never married' was used a euphemism in obituaries for 'He was homosexual'. But then the second sentence goes on to say "[...] it may be found in coded and uncoded forms, such as when the subject never married but was not homosexual." If that is the case, surely the simplest explanation is simply that 'He never married' meant exactly that, but that sometimes (it turns out) people didn't marry because they were homosexual. No evidence is presented that 'He never married' was used as a euphemism, per se. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.241.0.254 (talk) 20:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)