Talk:Hazaras

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Hazaras was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 25, 2009	Good article nominee	Not listed

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Constant removal of sourced info

@Bravehm: Per WP:CONSENSUS and WP:ONUS, it is your responsibility to gain consensus for your changes, not anyone else. So feel free to start. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @HistoryofIran: I want you to explain why you make strange and unreasonable changes in the article. This shows the bias of taking a strange position against the Hazaras. Bravehm (talk) 22:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You must be trolling at this rate. This time [1] you removed even more sourced info under the guise of "reverting" me. Read WP:CONSENSUS and WP:ONUS - YOU are the one who has to explain himself not me. Accusing me of bias is also rich. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:03, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That information was incorrect, added by User:KoizumiBS. Their goal is to push Hazaras as Mongols in any way possible without considering the facts.

Another change I made was adding information about the Hazara society. Bravehm (talk) 23:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Too bad, information in Wikipedia will not be removed just because you don't like it (WP:JDLI). And as you've been told countless times, we base our info on WP:RS, not our personal opinion. I've lost count on how many WP:ASPERSIONS you have made against KoizumiBS. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kansas Bear: before making changes in the article, you should discuss here to reach a consensus.--Bravehm (talk) 23:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You don't have consensus. Take your own advice! --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:37, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kansas Bear: Several days ago, I asked @HistoryofIran for a discussion to reach a consensus, but they did not respond. Please check the talk page once. Bravehm (talk) 23:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the billionth time, the one who has to gain WP:CONSENSUS is you. And you will never gain WP:CONSENSUS just because you WP:JDLI some info that clashes with your personal opinion. And the thread you're linking was you asking me to explain myself despite YOU being the one to remove sourced info (which you were called out for several times just above [2]), just like you are doing here. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True but you treat me seriously and rejected my every edit for no reason. One of them was my first edit in the article of Hazaras. I don't know why only with me. Bravehm (talk) 23:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want info removed because you consider it "incorrect" because it clashes with your opinion, then yes, you will not be treated seriously. And no, I always come up with a proper reason in line with the rules, unlike you. Again, please gain WP:CONSENSUS for your removal of sourced info. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I added sourced information in the last edit and you don't pay attention to it. Bravehm (talk) 00:06, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which still does not justify you removing sourced information in that same edit [3]. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:09, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You rejected and removed sourced information on the Gharchistan article.[4] This may not be fair either. Bravehm (talk) 00:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah right, I am sorry for not letting you add a primary source (because screw WP:PST and WP:SCHOLARSHIP) and misuse another. Please don't change the topic. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran: You removed this sourced information from the article Hazarajat. You should not do this while condemning the behavior of others and it is unlikely that you will do so.[5] Bravehm (talk) 00:34, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Poor attempt at WP:ASPERSIONS and trying to make your disruptive edits look less bad. It seems like you have run out of things to say, and now are mentioning my edits elsewhere, which is off-topic, and which I won't entertain. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You also gave this report to the Administrators while it was off topic.[6]

It is unlikely that you will do such an act. Bravehm (talk) 00:54, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 May 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

With the real data not being added to the article so far the 2024 Data is more reliable with reference's I request to edit the article with the new proven sources. Mustafa ali223 (talk) 09:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Charliehdb (talk) 09:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hazaras - Related ethnic groups

Based on what are Tajiks included in the part "Related ethnic groups" of the Hazaras wikipage?

Aimaqs, Uzbeks, Turkic people (Kyrgyz, Tatars, Bayats, Qizilbash, Turkmen, Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Azerbaijanis and Anatolian Turkish) are all acceptable related ethinc groups. But Tajiks aren't Turkic just like Hazaras aren't Iranian/Iranic. Tajiks are related to Iranian/Iranic people (Persians, Kurds, Baloch, Gilaks, Lurs, Mazanderanis, and Pamiris). 188.148.112.34 (talk) 20:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote this but I wasn't logged in. Siggs savache (talk) 20:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Hazara are an Iranian people by definition. It is a linguistic classification. Genetically, the Hazara (like all other peoples around the world) are closely related to their neighbors, including Tajiks and Pashtuns. The genetic link is perhaps closest to Central Asians (i. e. Uzbeks). Claiming that Hazara are related to Anatolian Turks (many of whom are descendants of converted Europeans) but not to Tajiks (many of whom have Turkic/Mongolian ancestry) does not make any sense. 85.190.188.0 (talk) 21:51, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The use of the word "azra" instead of "Hazara" among Hazaras to refer to themselves.

In the Etymology section of the article it claims that Hazaras use the word "azra" to refer to themselves. I see it uses a secondary source for this claim. But a primary source on this topic I have discrovered, "The Races Of Afghanistan by H. W. Bellew" records that Hazaras in the late 1800s never refered to themselves as "hazara" and it is external word that outsiders call Hazaras. They refered to themselves as simply what tribe they are from. So I believe this "azra" word, anecdotally speaking as a hazara, is unheard off ontop of being a novelty with no historical basis. This is all my belief of course backed by a primary acccount. Mioncraft (talk) 02:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ross E. Denison in his introduction notes to Dughlat's Tarikh-i rashidi mentions that "Hazara" has no "racial consideration" to it and means "Hill-men" or "mountaineer". Bacon in her work makes the same observation that it means something akin to "Mountain tribal" and is word that is used for other ethinc groups also if they are mountain tribal. Though they both acknowledge that in the modern era the term "Hazara" is a word reserved for the people who live within Central Afghanistan now. Mioncraft (talk) 11:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 September 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Hazaras are evidently descendants of the Kushan people 2403:4800:3414:9500:10D4:8010:6B47:D55E (talk) 11:25, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source? --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is generally agreed that the Kushans were a people of Tocharian origin. If not, it is universally accepted that they were a phenotypically Caucasian Indo-European group. This would mean they most likely resembled the modern-day Nuristani or Pamiri, not the Hazara.

The first mention of the Hazaras was by Babur in his autobiography, "Baburnama," where he notes that the Hazaras speak "Mogholi." Most historians agree that the 16th century marks the period when the Hazaras emerged as a distinct ethnic group.
Faiz Muhammad Kateb, a Hazara historian, in his book on Afghanistan’s history, Siraj al-Tawarikh, notes that he is from the tribe of "Muhammad Khwajah," a Timurid/Mughal nobleman and commander-in-chief of Babur’s army from the Mongol Barlas tribe. He further mentions that his father’s name was "Said Muhammad Moghol."
In his book, Kateb also records that about 10,000 families in Ghazni, referred to as "Hazara e Jaghato," spoke Mongolian. This was in the late 1800s.

Considering this, it should be sufficient to prove that the Hazaras are of Mongol origin, particularly through the Timurids, Chagatais, and Ilkhanates. I would recommend Elizabeth Bacon's work on this subject. Mioncraft (talk) 03:04, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The origins of the Hazara people have not been fully reconstructed. Genetic and linguistic analyses describe Hazaras as an ethnically mixed group, with varying degrees of ancestry linked to contemporary Turkic, Mongolic, and Iranic populations. phenotypically, Hazaras share a common racial structure and physical resemblance with the Turkic people of Central Asia.

The first mention of the Hazaras was by Babur in his autobiography, Baburnama, also he notes the Hazaras as Turkic (Turkoman Hazaras).
"Emir Muhammad Khwaja belonged to the Timurid Barlas confederation. His ancestral homeland is Kesh, in present day Uzbekistan. Emir Muhammad Khwaja was the son of Emir Haji Saifuddin who was wazir of Timur, and the Barlas, the Mughal dynasty, and the Timurid dynasty were Turkic in every way.
The "Muhammad Khwaja Hazaras" spoke the Chagatai language, a Turkic language of the Karluk branch, which was completely a Turkic language.--203.171.100.182 (talk) 10:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 November 2024

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Hazaras. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

I want to include the total population of Hazaras "c. 10-12 million"^[1] according to the source in the article.--Snaretusk (talk) 10:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 November 2024

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Hazaras. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

1. Under 20 and 21st century, I'm requesting to add further information about the Mazar-e Sharif massacre and link the wiki page to it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Mazar-i-Sharif_massacre). The main source for the massacre is from Human Rights Watch.

https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports98/afghan/Afrepor0.htm

2. I'm requesting to add a separate section about Hazara embroidery, which is an important part of Hazara culture.

Sources: https://trc-leiden.nl/trc-needles/regional-traditions/iranian-plateau/hazara-embroidery-afghanistan

https://camilcollection.com/blog#:~:text=The%20Hazaras%20from%20central%20Afghanistan,work%20rather%20than%20freestyle%20embroidery.

https://www.vam.ac.uk/event/R7BV5VdP7L/hazara-dress-and-embroidery-from-afghanistan?srsltid=AfmBOop450aRPlfbkVRbiIUgL_1dYvAdZ3kwdk02zT-_c0ab5NXQ0Y2m

https://www.womenrise.art/story/hazara-artist-latifa-attaii

Thank you. Tigerlily143 (talk) 05:53, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]