Talk:Harvey Shapiro (cellist)

This article was nominated for deletion on 21 November 2022. The result of the discussion was keep.

A fact from Harvey Shapiro (cellist) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 December 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that cellist Harvey Shapiro played at the 50th anniversary of his professional debut despite broken ribs and a torn muscle incurred from a fall a few days prior?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Harvey Shapiro (cellist).

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Pre10s (talk) 02:45, 11 July 2010 (UTC) It doesn't seem that he played on the Eleanor Rigby session... see the cited entry on Eleanor Rigby that lists the session musicians. I wonder who started this rumor? It seems to be in the air (see: http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/11/review_audience_rejoices_to_he.html[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 05:32, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the 1963 disbanding of Harvey Shapiro's string quartet by WQXR-FM drew protests from students at Columbia University? Source: [1]
- ALT1: ... that Harvey Shapiro was appointed as a cello teacher at the Juilliard School despite having little teaching experience? Source: [2]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Misa Sine Nomine (Schidlowsky)
- Comment: ~~QPQ coming soon...~~ Done!

5x expanded by CurryTime7-24 (talk). Self-nominated at 03:51, 5 December 2022 (UTC).[reply]

DYKcheck is telling me that a 5x expansion has not been accomplished. Can you please confirm if the article has been expanded five-fold? In addition, the sourcing for ALT0 is only cited to the blockquote and not the relevant sentences; the references will need duplication for DYK purposes. Otherwise, the article meets length requirements and the only match Earwig detects is a false positive due to the aforementioned quote. I have to add that I will only approve ALT0 should this pass as it is not unusual for people to be appointed as teachers in universities despite a lack of teaching experience, not to mention ALT0 being a stronger hook. However, I do think ALT0 may need a slight revision since it seems that no actual protests happened due to the quartet disbanding, but rather there was an effort (in vain?) by students calling for the decision to be reversed. Also waiting on the QPQ. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:07, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Are we talking expansion by number of words or characters? Either way, let me know; I think I have more material to juice. With respect to the word "protest," it means, according to Merriam-Webster:[3]

noun
a solemn declaration of opinion and usually of dissent

the act of objecting or a gesture of disapproval

a complaint, objection, or display of unwillingness usually to an idea or a course of action

transitive verb

to make solemn declaration or affirmation of

to execute or have executed a formal protest against (something, such as a bill or note)

to make a statement or gesture in objection to

intransitive verb

to make a protestation

to make or enter a protest

All these would fit my usage. The termination of the WQXR Quartet provoked disagreements/objections/complaints from students and an unsuccessful coordinated campaign to reverse the radio station's decision; which resulted in, among other things, a public statement from this group decrying the matter. You're probably thinking of "demonstration," "picket," or something along the lines of a large-scale rally or mass meeting expressing objection, which was not the case here (and was not implied by me). —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 03:59, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, should I cite the information from the same source one sentence after another? I ask only because the colon used to separate the blockquote indicates a sub-division of, not a break from the section preceding it. The sentence following the blockquote ("Students also urged supporters to petition the station and the New York Times to rescind the WQXR Radio Quartet's termination") is cited from the same source and implies organized expressions of protest as well. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 04:09, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

DYKcheck checks prose count, so characters. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:42, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. Let me get to work on that. Should be ready tomorrow. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 04:55, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I expanded the article to just over 5 times now. Sorry for my miscalculation earlier. I'm usually more careful and check expansions with the character count tool. This time I eyeballed it—and was off by a good margin. Again, I apologize, but also thank you for goading me to improve the article further. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:08, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To answer your earlier question, the main sentence(s) that serves as the source(s) for the hook must have a footnote for DYK purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:32, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't that redundant, though? If the colon only indicates a sub-division, not a full stop, then why cite from the same source twice in succession within the same section? Sorry for the questions. Not a big deal and I happily amended according to your request.—CurryTime7-24 (talk) 02:47, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's a requirement for DYK purposes, see WP:DYKCRIT: Each fact in the hook must be supported in the article by at least one inline citation to a reliable source, appearing no later than the end of the sentence(s) offering that fact. Citations at the end of the paragraph are not sufficient. This rule applies even when a citation would not be required for the purposes of the article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:10, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Got it, thank you. :) Let me know if everything checks out now or if there are other issues that need to be addressed. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 18:17, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just in case, here's one more ALT:

ALT2: ... that cellist Harvey Shapiro played at the 50th anniversary of his professional debut despite broken ribs and a torn muscle incurred from a fall a few days prior? Source: "It was not announced until midway through the program that [Shapiro] was performing in acute discomfort from broken ribs and a torn muscle suffered in a fall a few days previously."[4]

Thank you, it appears that the article now meets DYK requirements. I tried accessing the source for ALT2 and while I could access it, the archived version was too blurry for me to independently verify the quote, so AGF here. QPQ has also been done, so this is good to go with ALT2 which I think is the strongest among all the proposals (and also avoids the concerns I had regarding the "protest" wording). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]