Talk:Hardcore punk/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Kingsif (talk · contribs) 16:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm Kingsif, and I'll be doing this review. This is an automated message that helps keep the bot updating the nominated article's talkpage working and allows me to say hi. Feel free to reach out and, if you think the review has gone well, I have some open GA nominations that you could (but are under no obligation to) look at. Kingsif (talk) 16:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Lead a good length
Lead well written and a sufficient overview, though perhaps the David Fricke mention is a little too specific
Infobox-navbox looks good
Quite a few duplication wikilinks in body text. There's a user script to identify these
Some sources are missing a title
Source all look reliable for topic. Since the check tools are down, I'll AGF that there's no copyvio or OR, but there's also a lot of things that are missing citations that could be OR

Origin of the term

Some of the quotations in this section start with ellipses for no apparent reason, which should be removed
The introduction of Blush as "Hardcore historian" should come at the first mention of his name.
The last two sentences of the first paragraph would read better if combined
A detailed section.

Characteristics

Drowned in Sound can have a wikilink here
The sentence One definition of the genre is "a form of exceptionally harsh punk rock." is relevant, but reads quite awkwardly, is there a better way to integrate this in the section. It could even be moved to the start?
Blush should only be referred to by his last name, as this started in the last section
What is the [sic] after distressed by the 'art'ificiality referring to?
Another slightly unusually formatted quotation: "...disavows...synthetic technological effects...[and] the recording industry." – this should be more like "disavows [...] synthetic technological effects [and] the recording industry." (note the square brackets around the remaining ellipsis aren't necessary)
The quote-heaviness seems to introduce a lot of redundancies in this section, which also makes it a little hard to understand. Is it possible to rewrite parts of this (especially second paragraph)
there are notable exceptions, such as the all-African-American band Bad Brains and notable women such as Crass singer Joy de Vivre and Black Flag's second bassist, Kira Roessler. needs a reference
Needs a comma after "the vocalist of D.O.A."
The apostrophes in Keithley's quote need to be changed to plain ones
Is this first part supposed to be an introduction? If so, it should be much less quote-heavy, moving those to the relevant area below, and much more summary style

Musical characteristics

Is Blush now a critic as well? No need to reintroduce him every paragraph, add critic to his first mention if relevant
Again with random ellipses in quotations
The part emphasized two elements: "off-the-charts" loudness which reached a level of threatening, powerful "uncompromising noise" and rhythm, in place of the typically focused-on elements in mainstream rock music, harmony and pitch (i.e., melody) needs some editing done to make its punctuation correct
The rest of this is good and informative (detailed without being messy)
Hardcore drumming, with the drummer hitting the drums hard is probably too repetitive with drum and hard

Politics

Reaganomics doesn't need quotation marks
I think using "homosexuals" as a collective noun the way the article does is considered offensive. Could this be changed to 'gay people' or at least 'homosexual people'?
Too many 'and's in acting as the "politically correct scene police"[51] and having what was perceived to be "a very narrow definition of what fits into Punk" and apparently being "authoritarian and trying to dominate the scene" with their views, commas will fix
Last sentence needs a ref

Moshing

A mosh pit image could be used here
There doesn't seem to be any cite or explanation for The term mosh came into use in the early 1980s American hardcore scene in Washington, D.C.
Last sentence needs a ref, too

Clothing style

I'm not sure the image is that representative - isn't hardcore a lot more t-shirt and a lot less lumberjack?
Also too many 'and's in the standard hardcore punk clothing and styles included torn jeans, leather jackets, spiked armbands and dog collars and mohawk hairstyles and DIY ornamentation of clothes with studs, painted band names, political statements, and patches
No need to repeat Rollins' last name in one sentence talking about him

Fanzines

Sentences with quotations need their own citation
This section especially seems to be missing quite a few refs
Note that I'm glad this part is included, important to the scene
Why is Maximumrocknroll spelled differently here than everywhere else in the article? It's also inconsistently in italics/not within the same line

Los Angeles

I'm surprised there's not even a sentence under the 'United States' header saying the US is where it originated
review break: already quite a bit to do Kingsif (talk) 17:00, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please sort out the quotation formatting in this first paragraph
Stop introducing Blush in every section
West coasters - is this two words?
- Why would the first hardcore record specifically be for Westcoasters if the genre came from the West coast? Isn't it just the first, no qualifiers
Black Flag has been deemed the most influential group - by whom?
ref needed at the last sentence of the first paragraph
If a band name begins with 'The', please leave this capitalized
Half the second paragraph needs some references
Ditto for the third, and the last sentence of the fourth
Is there a simpler way of writing blazed trails? Unless the source says they were trailblazers, which can be written that way

San Francisco

Refs please
Some grammar or punctuation tweak is needed in Another important local institution was Tim Yohannan's fanzine, Maximumrocknroll, as well as his show on Berkeley, California public radio station KPFA Maximum RocknRoll Radio Show, which played the younger Northern California bands

Washington DC

Besides article-wide issues already mentioned above, fine

Boston

Please add refs
Overuse of 'seminal'
Who is Curtis Casella?

New York

the scene was headquartered - is 'headquartered' the appropriate verb, with all it implies? Would 'centered' not be better?
Grammar fix needed at The Dead Boys, originally from Cleveland but gained popularity in New York played at Hilly's club often and he even managed them
Can the last two sentences of the second paragraph be merged for flow
Needs refs

Other American cities

Unwieldy, unreferenced, sea of blue list

Canada

I don't think people "instigate" criminal investigations
At laid against the Dayglo Abortion’s record label, remove 'the' and change the apostrophe
Second paragraph needs refs and to be less list-y

UK

the 'Eighties - could this become "the 1980s"?
Although, the last three sentences of the first paragraph seem barely related (listing bands of other genres) and are uncited, would recommend removal
Why is Sweden mentioned here?
UK hardcore links to something else, remove wikilink
Needs refs and some more commas in the second paragraph would help

Australia

are becoming more prominent should be rephrased to past tense, like "were becoming more prominent in 2017"

Other countries

Since most of this is completely unreferenced, I won't bother, since it could just be removed
Of the referenced parts, the first Japan sentence is fine, and the Muslim hardcore paragraph suffers from starting "In recent years", contradicting itself, and needing a comma after Chicago

Mid-1980s

I kind of forgot this part was supposed to be vaguely chronological. Since it is, can the country sub-sections be arranged chronologically, and the ones that didn't start till the mid or late '80s be moved down to these sections?
Text uncited

Late 1980s

Opens with By the mid to late 1980s - should it be combined with the above or does this need changing?
In Social Distortion went on hiatus after its first album, change 'its' to 'their'

Youth crew

Should have a {{main|Youth crew}} template
I don't think the straight edge music was ever really explained above? And it's not in the subgenres below, either. That's an issue.

1990s

Could the refs be spread through the paragraphs?
Internet Hellfest needs a ref

2000s

when the label folded, the band and the label parted ways - well, yes, a non-existent label can't support an artist. Is there any way to rewrite this that makes it sound less meaningless?
Needs more refs
Rise Against gradually diminished hardcore elements from their music is not correct usage of 'diminished'
Other minor issues - at least get the article a copyedit

2010s

there has been - make past
(often abbreviated to NWOBHC) - is this true? It's easier to say New Wave of British Hardcore than that acronym
Bands who are apart of the moment - just 'part', and 'moment' should be 'movement'

Subgenres and fusion genres

D-beat fine
Emo:
- The sentence The post-hardcore style first took shape in Chicago, with bands such as Big Black, the Effigies and Naked Raygun,[157] while later developed in Washington, DC within the community of bands on Ian MacKaye's Dischord Records with bands such as Fugazi, the Nation of Ulysses, and Jawbox. is a run-on that loses its grammar. Breaking up would be good
- it's not the late 2000s anymore
- last ref needs to be outside punctuation
Heavy is fine
Thrashcore needs more refs
In Grindcore, write out 'early to mid-1980s'
In Metalcore, I'm not sure what resulting in two main genres one being metalcore is supposed to say

Influence on other genres

Alt rock needs ref
In Grunge, the word 'state' is not needed after West Coast; also, isn't Northwestern the term for this area...
Electronic:
- I believe left-extremist is commonly known as extreme left-wing
- chiptune is singular

Illustration

Images all on commons, PD or otherwise free to use
Image of Joy de Vivre in characteristics seems justified by her brief mention as a rare example of a significant woman in the genre. Of course, wouldn't it better to depict the norm rather than the exception. Also, that part is unreferenced anyway. If kept, the caption would need to say that's one of few women prominent in the genre
There doesn't seem to be a reason for the image of Nuno Pereira to be included? He appears to be crowd-surfing, which wouldn't be included in musical characteristics, and there's no indication if he's singing in the ways described. There's also no mention of his band (A Wilhelm Scream) anywhere in the article... If kept, the caption should explain why the image is included, and change the 'a' in front of the band name to 'an'.
There's some music clips (non-free) in the regional sub-sections with no indication as to their inclusion. Captions should say, e.g., that the particular clip shows elements unique to the location the band is from. Otherwise, remove.
Why is there an image of Jello Biafra? It's a short section that doesn't need an image, it doesn't seem to illustrate anything about Biafra or DK or the SF music scene, and pushes down into the section below - where there's two media elements at the top, looking a bit cluttered
With Agnostic Punk performance image - are they performing in a notable venue? Can this be mentioned in the caption?
Inconsistency of using periods in captions should be tidied up

Overall

Quick fail based on the massive lack of referencing and plenty of style issues throughout. Full review has been done for nominator/whoever to work on. Would definitely recommend a copyedit before nominating again. Kingsif (talk) 21:31, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]