Talk:Haradnichanka

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Requested move 29 January 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 16:21, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Haradnichanka → Gorodnichanka – As per WP:commonname, Gorodnichanka is a much more used and widespread name: -It has nothing to do with politics, Gorodnichanka is the native name of the river, which all the citizens of Grodno, the city where it's located, and the rest of the country, including officials, use. -Google: 42,400 (Gorodnichanka) vs 608 (Haradnichanka) search results. -The Handball Team "Gorodnichanka" named after this river, also uses this spelling (Information about the team in english, The team's official website). -The name Gorodnichanka is also used on multiple history website, for example: Local history of Grodno. - The name Gorodnichanka is used on tourist websites and in books ([1], [2]) WhiteRusian (talk) 12:58, 30 January 2021 (UTC)—Relisting. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:30, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). OhKayeSierra (talk) 03:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:BELARUSIANNAMES. The river is in Belarus, not in Russia and, while the English transliteration of the river's Russian name should remain as a redirect, the main title header should depict the English transliteration of its native name. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment WP:COMMONNAME would override this; for example we use Yellow River, and not the Chinese Huang He, even though the river is in China. I'm not convinced that a handball team and a cherry-picked website are notable enough sources to establish this, though. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 06:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Dear @162.208.168.92:, unfortunately there was no cherry picking in my evidence, I just listed the first websites that popped up when I typed "Gorodnichanka", that's all. You don't have to believe me, in fact please don't, do your own research and see for yourself :) WhiteRusian (talk) 12:58, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Yellow River example is inapplicable here since that is the river's English name, not its Russian name (which is Zholtaya Ryeka, meaning "Yellow River" in English), although Russian Wikipedia article's main title header is a Russian transliteration of "Huang He". Since the Belarusian river at the center of this discussion does not have an English name, we have a choice of using English transliteration of the river's Russian name or English transliteration of the river's Belarusian name. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:49, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Roman Spinner The example is to illustrate that the "native" name is not the name that we use, but the common name. This is problematic for Belarus, because (from WP:NCGN:)

There are cases in which the local authority recognizes equally two or more names from different languages, but English discussion of the place is so limited that none of the above tests indicate which of them is widely used in English; so there is no single local name, and English usage is hard to determine.

Since Belarus is a bilingual country, the common name could be in Russian (as is OP's argument) and that would be the article's title. Your original reply was justified by "Belarusian place=Belarusian transliteration", which is inaccurate. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 00:44, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@162.208.168.92 In bilingual or multilingual countries, such as Switzerland, Canada or Belgium, there are regions where one language predominates and the names of such a country's geographical features are usually in the predominant language of the specific region. In the case of Belarus, there is no specific region where the English names of geographical features are expected to be transliterations of those features' Russian names, rather than Belarusian names.

English Wikipedia is expected to be WP:CONSISTENT in the transliterations of other languages' geographical features. Thus, in a case such as this, even if Russian language is co-equal in Belarus, if no official English transliteration exists, then rather than mix English transliterations of Russian names for some geographical features and Belarusian names for others, all such names in Belarus are expected to be transliterated into English using the Belarusian form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:07, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

there are regions where one language predominates and the names of such a country's geographical features are usually in the predominant language of the specific region.

If that were the case, since every region in Belarus is predominantly Russian-speaking (see Languages of Belarus), all geographical features of Belarus would be transliterated into Russian. However, WP:BELARUSIANNAMES currently gives preference to Belarusian. Being consistent (whether all Russian or all Belarusian) would be a lot simpler, but it would ignore the main question, which is What is the common name? 162.208.168.92 (talk) 02:54, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If Belarus or, for that matter, Ukraine or Moldova, were to be presented as Russian-speaking countries, with a minority press, radio, television or films using the local language, then names of its inhabitants (or at least inhabitants who consider themselves to be primarily Russian-speaking) places, geographical features, historical aspects, etc, would be transliterated into English using Russian forms.

However, since Wikipedia does adhere to WP:BELARUSIANNAMES or WP:UKRAINIANNAMES, then unless there is a WP:COMMONNAME English exonym, such as Minsk or, for Ukraine, the now-established-as-an-English-exonym Kyiv, rather than the former exonym Kiev, then Belarusian names that do not have an English common name, would be expected to follow WP:BELARUSIANNAMES. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:49, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed—blindlynx (talk) 22:18, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:BELARUSIANNAMES —blindlynx (talk) 22:16, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.