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move to Hankou District?

[edit]

As the other two districts of Wuhan are located at Hanyang District and Wuchang District, it seems to me like it would be helpful to keep this article to the same standard. (Personally, I was at the Hanyang District article first, and tried to find this article by typing Hankou District, which didn't work; I have set up a redirect, but I still think it would be better to have all three article titles following the same convention.)

Any thoughts/objections before I make the move? —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 01:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, I got bored and went ahead with the move. Hankow now redirects here to avoid double redirects. I have gone through a lot of pages and piped the wikilinks directly over to here. —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 06:08, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Things ain't this simple. The three historical cities on which today's Wuhan is based were Wuchang, Hanyang, and Hankou, and the names are still preserved as the historic names for the three parts of the modern (urban) Wuhan, their borders being the rivers of Yangtze (Changjiang) and Hanjiang. The "districts" one usually talks about in the context of modern China are different creatuyres. The modern Sub-provincial city of Wuhan is an administrative unit that includes both the urban area, and plenty of rural lands around - it's 100 km or so across. It is divided, administratively, into a dozen or so districts. Of these, Wuchang District and Hanyang District roughly correspond to the historical sites of Hanyang and Wuchang (although parts of the old Wuchang may fall into the neighboring Gongshan District. On the other hand, there is no single administrative district corresponding to the old Hankou: my map shows its old center city falling within the modern Jiang'an District, while other parts are in Jianghan Distrcit and Qiaokou District. I will try to modify the text of the articles appropriately when I have nothing better to do. Vmenkov (talk) 07:10, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't that all the more reason to support the move? As far as I can tell, most of the article is on modern Hankou district (concessions and things like that, all in the 20th century or later) rather than ancient Hankow...which, to me, seems to imply that Hankou District is the more appropriate title. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you were saying. —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 07:19, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind, I see what you were saying. Nevertheless, as you pointed out in your recent edit to the article, Hankou is still seen as one of the three parts of the city, even though it's not an official administrative district. I don't have a source to quote on that, but from my experience at least it seems pretty clear that when locals are introducing you to Wuhan or showing you around, they tell you that the three districts are Wuchang, Hanyang, and Hankou. —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 07:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite true that both the English "district" and the Chinese "qu" can be understood in an informal sense ("Olympic Peninsula is a mostly rural and forested district in north-western Washington") as well as a name for a particular type of an administrative unit. I am pretty sure 90% of Wuhan residents would not know or care where exactly the administrative border between Wuchang District and Gongshan District runs, for example, while they all would tell you what the 3 parts of Wuhan are. I am not a person who cares so much how an article is named, as long as it's clear from it's content what it's about. So let names stay as they are, but we just should make sure that the content reflects the situation: that is, the Hankou article won't be categorized under Category:County-level divisions of Hubei (and its content explains why), while the other two will be (but their content will mention the distinction between the historical names and the present admin units). This is nothing unusual for Hubei: elsewhere, 60 years ago, Huangshi (or it may have been Shihuang!) was a town in Daye County - and nowadays, (the county-level city of) Daye is a part of (the prefecture-level city of) Huangshi! Vmenkov (talk) 07:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I agree with that reasoning. I understand that Hankou is not officially a district (as mentioned in NeoJay's Oppose statement below) but in this case I think it's important also to consider how readers might be viewing it as compared to Wuchang and Hanyang; in this case it's my impression (although I'm no expert) that maintaining some symmetry with Wuchang and Hanyang is more beneficial for readers than following the naming guideline. There is some precedent for breaking the naming convention because of commonly known names—Pudong, for example, isn't named Pudong District, even though it appears to be an official district.
Regardless of what we decide, I agree with Vmenkov that the article should address the fact that it's usually thought of in the same breath as Wuchang and Hanyang but is not an official division; I think Vmenkov's current revision does a good job with that. —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 14:10, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Politizer, if you really like to "maintain some symmetry with Wuchang and Hanyang", you may create separate articles Wuchang (region) and Hanyang (region) for this concern. Anyway, adding "District" to this title will generate more confusion. --Neo-Jay (talk) 15:55, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. "District" should be added to the article title for a Chinese district according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese). However, Hankou is NOT a district in China. It's just a geographic and cultural region and not an administrative division. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese), "District" should not be added to its title. This is quite different from Wuchang District and Hanyang District. --Neo-Jay (talk) 11:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Northern expedition in hankou

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http://books.google.com/books?id=GJStnRC6pfQC&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tfVN0Gwx67YC&pg=PA230#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=t8wdOqCde-YC&pg=PR24#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=KbE04q1lXLoC&pg=PA198#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=azXW683kls0C&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=AjBX_gBhnI0C&pg=PA86#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=qhe6vP66jN0C&pg=PA209#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=RYGw2QYA3swC&pg=PA225#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=40VJugPCFzkC&pg=PA233#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=EisnZHAMbqkC&pg=PA225#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=QV5Wp2fJbzMC&pg=PA275#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=gl6x2tpkyQMC&pg=PA74#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fEqIVI501B0C&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=PNJOxyP0SqEC&pg=PA126#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=s7PLqfBXbwMC&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jlRHZdWJlV4C&pg=PA76#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=VW67uwsVuh8C&pg=PA85#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=EKwbAQAAMAAJ&q=Armed+threats#search_anchor

http://books.google.com/books?id=UCMjFlnsggUC&q=Recovered+Hankou+jiujang+#search_anchor

http://books.google.com/books?id=V2d12iZkgOwC&pg=PA1166#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=D3BeGTxGD0wC&pg=PA149#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=saJxAAAAMAAJ

http://books.google.com/books?id=uVpziLD6u5IC&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 06:46, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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