Talk:Hank Greenberg/Archive 1

Archive 1

Ethnicity in lead sentence

Greenberg's ethnicity is gone into detail in the body of the article where it belongs. Thanks --Tom 20:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Micellaneous section

It has one reference? Most of that stuff should go as unsourced/original research. I'll hold off for now. --Tom 20:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Misc section needs better sourceing

The sources might be at the end of the article, but each "fact" really should have a citation so readers don't have to look for them. I knoe Epee has done alot here, could that be done as well? TIA --Tom 16:02, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I added a few.--Epeefleche 21:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

58 Homers in 1938

It sounds like you are saying from 1927 to 1961 he was the only person to hit 58 homers. What about Foxx hitting 58 in 1932?

Do you agree with what I put in....... ? Msjayhawk 02:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Msjayhawk 19:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

deleted section

I jsut deleted the following section added earlier on 17 December 07: ==Anti-Semitism==

All during his major league career, Greenberg faced anti-semitsm. Many people screamed and yelled at him during the games, calling him names offensive to Jews. Henry Ford was one of the anti-semetic people. He wrote a book called The International Jew, which blamed some of the world's problems on the Jews. Despite the name calling and rowdy fans, Hank stood proud and tall. He did not let the crowd upset him.

I have no doubt that Mr. Greenberg suffered through anti-semitism. I deleted this section because, for one, the anti semitism is addressed in the article. Second, this section has no references. Third, the inclusion of the Henry Ford comment, true as it is either has no bearing on this particular article, or does not make a case as to why it should be included here.

If someone can reference it, and show why the Henry Ford comment is of relevance here, then please re-add it. Good editing! LonelyBeacon (talk) 03:22, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Just my own theory here, but Henry Ford was not only a prominent industrialist of the day and, therefore, influential to many people, but he was also one of the most prominent Detroit citizens of his day, and with Greenberg playing for the Detroit Tigers, having one of the leading local citizens (and employers) so verbally anti-semitic couldn't have made his life in Detroit any easier.CrashRiley (talk) 00:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Citations

The entire article is quite heavily lacking in citations, especially with respect to facts. Can we add some?

Dbk1441 (talk) 05:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Other son?

The below sentence doesn't make sense in the article because there in no mention of the 'other' son.

"Their other son, Stephen, played five years in the Washington Senators/Texas Rangers organization."

Any objection to editing out the word 'other'?

Mattsky (talk) 17:23, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Great Grandson and commentary

I deleted the edit related to his great grandson. Perhaps I should have left it with a request for reference. The commentary is really what I wanted to revert ("and i dont think that Hammering Hank would appreciate it that people keep editing this out of his page. Thanks....."). This should be on the talk page, no? Wikipelli ^Talk 03:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

NPOV - Jewish

Is it really necessary to point out he was Jewish with such prominence and overkill? Some of the introductory paragraph seems to not be NPOV... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.195.114.79 (talk • contribs) 24 June 2005

I agree. The opening paragraph or sentence should be a quick summary of who the player was but not into his overall background. I moved info regarding his religion into a seperate section although I question the relevance of it in the first place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dysepsion (talk • contribs) 7 July 2005

I realize this is a really old conversation, but I wanted to leave a not as to why I'm re-inserting the Jewish thing into the intro. Greenberg played baseball at the height of anti-semetism, and he was the only star Jewish athlete of the time. He was heckled with anti-Semitic slurs, and it's commonly believed that he didn't break Babe Ruth's home run record in 1938 because pitchers who didn't want a Jew to hold the record pitched around him. He was a role model to young Jewish men at a time when they were stereotyped as weak, sneaky, and bookish; the Sandy Koufax of his era. Not mentioning Greenberg's Judaism in the into is, frankly, like not mentioning that Jackie Robinson or Hank Aaron are African-American. Greenberg's Jewishness is central to his place in baseball history. --Djrobgordon 22:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Funny, I just looked at the Jackie Robinson page and nobody is complaining about NPOV. It seems that any positive mention of Jews is going to get tagged in Wikipedia. Pedantrician (talk) 00:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you; It was well known that he would have gone past the "Babe"s record if he was christian or similar.......

Msjayhawk 02:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The comments posted above are ridiculous. Have you ever played baseball? You do understand that the point of the activity is to WIN, correct? You do understand that if you pitch to Hank Greenberg in 1938, he hits it out of the yard, and you LOSE, right? You do understand this? Do you also understand that as a species, it is commonly accepted that all human beings like money, right? And that if Hank Greenberg hits one 500ft off you, you get less of said money, right? The fact that Greenberg was Jewish absolutely comes into play, but this is the fact that should be in parentheses, not the more obviously logical explanation that the opposing team simply wished to WIN the games and get more money. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.219.192.217 (talk) 20:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Except the statistical record shows (as explained in a recent New York Times article) that there was a highly unusual spike in the number of walks Greenberg got as he got closer to the Babe's record. The next season the number of walks went down to normal. For all the other home-run kings on record, there was no such unusual spike. Despite your experience in major league baseball, your "understanding" of pitchers motivations would appear to be flawed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.160.10 (talk) 23:14, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

If baseball in 1938 was all about winning and money...why didn't baseball teams field the best players? Oh...no African Americans allowed. Hank was denied the home run crown because he was a Jew. Simple as that and it is relevant. The NYT article shoots down all of the but but but arguments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Basaltmark (talk • contribs) 08:11, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

You're lost. Hank walked 119 times in 1938, which is a far lower number than the 137 times Ruth walked in 1927. Furthermore, Greenberg's walk total was greater in the first two months of 1938 than in the last two months. Furthermore again, you don't understand that only 11 years after Ruth made the record, there just wasn't that kind of emotional weight to it to make people wanna try to rip off Greenberg. Finally, as I'm sure you know, back in the thirties, players received large bonuses for making the playoffs. 7 of the Tigers last 11 games were against against the Cleveland Indians, and both teams were jockeying for a playoff position. Sooooo... when faced with having to pitch to a man having a herculean season, or taking home a few thousand bucks, they chose to take the money and walk him. Until you can muster some FACTS...get offa my baseball diamond! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.11.160.251 (talk) 08:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

But I'd never want you to just take my word for it. Voila! The Tiger's 1938 season: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1938-schedule-scores.shtml

Take a look! See? Hank got unlucky. He faced the one team that had the competitive and financial incentive to walk him. Otherwise, who knows? He may have hit three more and shared the record today instead of those fraudulent bums McGuire and Bonds. Oh yeah, how often was Bonds walked in his season? Over 30%. So get your race talk outta my sport, fellas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.11.160.251 (talk) 09:09, 26 May 2010 (UTC) And another thing... a very reputable source agrees with me: Hank Greenberg.

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