Talk:Hafsid dynasty

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Hafsid in Tenerife?

Is it possible to know more about that? Who was taken in Tenerife? And his descendants? Where are now?--78.12.38.210 (talk) 09:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC) Please, somebody translate the answer in Italian, my language. Thanks.[reply]

I am also surprised by this. I know that some Moroccan pretender got refuge in Spain (and his library ended at Monastery of El Escorial), but nothing about this dinasty. --Error (talk) 19:37, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Error: You mean Zaydan An-Nasser and his Zaydani Library? -TheseusHeLl (talk) 20:33, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for searching. I was probably mixing Mulay Xeque with the Zaydani library. --Error (talk) 21:12, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Tunisian flag till 1831.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reliability of flags

(I know, I know, another flag discussion!) The sources currently cited for these flags ([1], [2]) do not appear to be reliable sources, or maybe borderline reliable. They're websites, probably written by amateurs, that interpret primary sources, namely medieval European atlases. The latter are known to attribute emblems to faraway (and sometimes fictional) kingdoms regardless of whether the authors had direct knowledge of them. As Nancy Marino's introduction to the Book of Knowledge of All Kingdoms (a frequently cited primary source) notes: "[...] imaginary heraldry was a commonplace in the Middle Ages, having begun about the same time as real heraldry was being standardized, in the mid-twelfth century." (see pp. xlvii-xlviii). Crucially, reliable secondary sources on North African history rarely illustrate or discuss any official flags of these medieval dynasties. This needs to be taken into account in the article.

We should at least attempt to verify whether these references identify the primary sources clearly, ideally enough to verify them ourselves, as we did at Talk:Kingdom of Tlemcen. I also recommend the captions always state which primary source the flag is based on, so readers are aware (this is currently not done for the yellow flag). A short explanation of the context in the "flags" section might not hurt either. And I'm not sure whether any of them belong in the infobox. R Prazeres (talk) 18:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@R Prazeres I added a sub-section about the white hafsid standard and removed the unsourced yellow flag. I left the other one in the infobox because it’s supported by a number of primary sources and has a white background similar to what secondary sources say. Not saying it’s THE hafsid dynastic flag but it’s better than the yellow one. Nourerrahmane (talk) 08:41, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will soon do a Marinid flag sub-section too. I think we really need to remove fictitious flags because they mislead readers about the nature of these states and dynasties with nationalist agendas in more cases than not. While in reality most Islamic white flags uphold a religious doctrine of a caliphate successor state or affiliated state. Nourerrahmane (talk) 08:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thank you for moving this forward. As always, it's an improvement, and I agree with removing any unattested flags. I think we should also remove the current blue and white flag from the infobox, since there's multiple other flags in primary sources (including the black crescent one you mentioned), but indeed we have nothing in the article or in the sources to tell us that any of them were THE official or preferred flag, so implying otherwise falls towards WP:OR. Keeping the information to a section with explicit sources and discussion is, again, the best approach I think. all the more so since, as I mentioned above, the primary sources for these images are all European and are just as likely to not reflect real historical flags. R Prazeres (talk) 02:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]