Talk:HMS Calypso (1883)

Abbreviations

We have RNR spelled out as Royal Naval Reserve, but then RVNR (not "RNVR") and NRNR are both used, with no explanation. Are these the same things? Do they need to be spelled out? Shem (talk) 22:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure where I got the latter two, but they do mean the same thing, so I have changed them to RNR. Kablammo (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Armament

The following is transcribed from a discussion on my talk page in 2009-2010. Kablammo (talk) 22:39, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

6" gun from HMS Calypso

gun from Calypso

Calliope; 5" gun in foreground; 6" behind it

Calypso in Newfoundland

Hello RcB:

It's on display at Fort Nelson, Portsmouth. It's listed as on loan from pounds marine shipping Ltd. I'm not sure if the company still exists but they own/owned a naval scrapyard at the top end of Portsea Island. It was built in 1893 and was built by the elswick ordnance company. It's aparently a Mk III. I would assume it was fitted when the ship was reactivated. About the only reasonable route I can see for it ending up where it is would be if it was stripped out before the ship transfered to canada but I dont know if the scrapyard existed at that point.

©Geni 20:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You could just email fort nelson and see if they know how it ended up there fnenquiries@armouries.org.uk .©Geni 17:17, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Did you ever hear back from fort nelson?©Geni 23:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

- - -

Hi there, I'm trying to identify the model of gun in Geni's photo at Fort Nelson. If it was a"Mk III" QF built as new by Elswick in 1893, it would be a 40-calibres (20 feet long internally) QF gun weighing 6.6 tons. Its cartridge was a brass case. But so far as I know, HMS Calypso had the much lighter and shorter (26 calibres) 5-ton BL gun (silk bag cartridge) of 1881-1883, and I doubt it would have been able to carry the QF 40-calibres gun. The gun looks too short for the long 40-calibres QF model, but difficult to judge end-on. A view of the breech would allow definite identification. I'm wondering whether this was one of the early 1880s BL Mk III 26-calibre guns which were later converted to QF in about 1893 by Elswick ? I.e. is this a QFC 6-inch gun ? But it lacks the bell muzzle typical of the 26-calibre BL 6-inch guns. Do you have any more information about this ? Gunlist for Calypso ? thanks. Rod. Rcbutcher (talk) 22:21, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm trying to find out the same information. Look above here, and at User_talk:Geni#HMS_Calypso_.281883.29. I have not yet heard back from the museum. Regards, Kablammo (talk) 22:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I received this e-mail in response to my enquiry:

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your enquiry and apologies for the delay. This gun carries the serial number 295 and if the surviving Gun Logs belonging to Explosion! The Museum of Naval Firepower at Priddy's Hard, Gosport but currently on deposit at the Hampshire County Record Office, Winchester, are consulted it can be seen that it was removed from Calypso and returned to store in Plymouth on the 10th August 1901 and appears to have ended up in Devonport on 23rd January 1902. Sadly there are no other entries regarding its earlier (or later) life. If, as you say, she had four such guns on board later, these would obviously carry other numbers and probably recorded in those Gun Logs. At the time this information did not form part of my brief.
I am not entirely certain of the exact way this gun came to be on loan to us since it was before my time. Knowing John Pounds and his organisation as I do he would have phoned us up to let us know that he had acquired it and would we like it as a loan item.
I hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,

[name]
Curator of Artillery
Royal Armouries

I do not understand the shape of the gunhouse, but perhaps the armament changed. I have a 1963 article from Mariners Mirror which has a silhouette of other ships of the Comus class which at least suggest this shape of gunhouse.

Regards, Kablammo (talk) 23:17, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Thankyou for letting me know.©Geni 00:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

In case you are still interested we now have a photo of the rear of the gun File:6 inch gun from HMS Calypso rear.JPG.15:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

That photo appears to confirm the gun as QF 6-inch Mk III. The photograph shows a gun with trunnions on Vavasseur mount which fits Mk III, also the breech lacks the lug underneath which Mk I and II had for connection to recoil buffer. Rcbutcher (talk) 05:17, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. That picture is very helpful. It resembles the 6" housing of Calliope (right). It is harder to correlate it to the sponsoned gun on Calypso in Newfoundland, but it could be the same type of housing, but covered at the top by the shed built atop the gunwale bulwark. The museum piece was removed before the ship went to Newfoundland (I think two of the four were removed), so the gun and housing shown wharfside in the third image on the right would be a different rifle, but perhaps one of the remaining 6". Regards, Kablammo (talk) 12:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

You can distinguish the QF gun visually as it was 6/12 feet longer than the BL guns (40 vs 26.5 cal) and had a fairly straight muzzle, whereas the BL guns had a very flared muzzle. Let me know if you find any such photos showing the QF gun on Calyso. I would be suprised, as the QF guns were far heavier than the BL (6.6 tons vs 5 tons) and I would think they would be outside the tolerance of the decks as designed. I understand that many BL 26-cal guns were upgraded to QF standard and such QFC guns would have fitted into Calypso with no problem. However, the QF MK III was a trunnion gun and mounted on Vavasseur recoil slide, similar to the BL gun, and hence would presumably have been compatible with the Calypso setup.. Rod. Rcbutcher (talk) 13:48, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Rod-- can you tell what the one in the centre picture is? Kablammo (talk) 14:18, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

That is the original BL 6-inch, identified by the De Bang breech : you'll see that the breech mechanism is surrounded by a housing projecting back from the circumference of the breechpiece i.e. the breech appears recessed. The QF and QFC guns didn't have this, and the rear of the breech was flat, with the breech mechanism projecting clear. Rod. Rcbutcher (talk) 14:36, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

I see. So was the Calypso gun a later replacement? Kablammo (talk) 20:07, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

If indeed it was ever on Calypso, yes... the 40-cal QF gun was an early 1890s gun, whereas the 26-cal BL guns were early 1880s and would have been available when Calyso was commissioned. But the 40-cal QF gun was a far bigger beast than the 26-cal BL, and looks too big for Calypso. And the lower photo above of Calypso in Newfoundland appears to show the flared muzzle and short barrel of the BL gun. Certainly a mixed 6-inch armament would have been more trouble than it was worth. Conclusion : the gun at Fort Nelson is not from Calypso, or else it may have been briefly trialled on board but not adopted. Rod. Rcbutcher (talk) 14:07, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Given the evidence I suspect the latter. Calypso remained active as part of the Training Squadron through the 1890s so may well have been fitted with newer armament. I believe the ship was partially disarmed before being placed back into commission and sent to Newfoundland in the last half of 1902, about a year after the date when this gun is stated to have been removed from the ship (which presumably was then out of commission), as stated in the records from the museum quoted above. Kablammo (talk) 14:44, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

RcB refers to User:Rcbutcher, a knowledgeable and collegial contributor. Rod Butcher died in 2017. Kablammo (talk) 22:48, 13 November 2021 (UTC)