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245 mph record only recognized by the AMA?

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On the website "motos-anglaises.com" you may find the information: "Le 25 août 1966 il atteint 395,351 kmh, la FIM refuse de l’homologuer, car la limite est de 1000 cm3 et les 2 moteurs de 650 font 1300cc, il est cependant homologué par l’AMA". Did it happen afterwards, that the FIM decided to recognize the record? ----130.83.197.103 (talk) 09:42, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is some vagueness in this short article. It should read 'set a speed record', or 'set the American speed record' as it was observed by the AMA and could not be ratified by FIM, being the 'world' regulatory body, which had no presence (AMA going it alone, as was often the case). The AMA observer is pictured (in my sources), named as Earl Flanders and titled as referee.

I had intended to expand this article using 1965 (yes, 1965), 1966 and 1970 sources which have been with me from new, then I started to noticed the discrepancies. They (the Americans, and probably the English Triumph motorcycle company) continued to trumpet it as a World Record, though. The originating editor has established a stub in GF using Primary Sources - latter-day web accounts which are unreliable in themselves (the usual syndrome of 40+ -year olds writing about events 50 years previous). The WP article states "It had innovative safety equipment including a cromoly roll cage and fire suppression equipment". Not so. Without (again) poring-over all the quoted source material and VT, I am unsure if "innovative" is present anywhere - therefore it may be inappropriate peacockery and opinion; there was certainly no "roll cage" - it's described as a roll-loop in my source (common single-seat car practice at the time, with supporting prose relating to Jim Clark's Indy car), and no installed fire equipment for the 1966 runs, but with prose and pics relating to safety harness and fire-evac procedure.

There were (at least) two versions of this effort - remember they were aiming for another 55mph (=300mph) in it's last guise around the time it was wrecked. The bike was exhibited at the British motorcycle show in November 1966, where the Placard reads "GYRONAUT X1. THE WORLD'S FASTEST MOTORCYCLE". It was exhibited in four sections - centre section (faired driver compartment combined with engine housing still with front and rear subframes attached), front and rear enclosure cowlings detached AND a separate dummy engine display (four engines in total). Bob Leppan and his retail Triumph business co-owner/Chief Engineer (often referred to elsewhere as simply 'mechanic') Jim Bruflodt are pictured with road racers John Cooper and Phil Read.

Here are some of the changes noticeable in the final variation, as wrecked (it may have been developed incrementally, with Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 versions etc):

  • altered main chassis sections
  • altered (heightened) rear bulkhead
  • altered rear wheel, drum replacing what was probably a Gunter basket hub with disc and caliper stated as Airheart
  • altered rear subframe incorporating 'chute (not present in 1966)
  • altered air-tank piping system, with possibly air-valve 'chute release (different rear enclosure?)
  • altered carbs and restyled exhausts
  • introduced fire suppression system (seen in footwell)
  • vagueness as to what records were set with "pump-gas", methanol and nitro-methane

    I would also have qualms about this being a motorcycle speed record - two-wheeled would be more appropriate as, from the Johnny Allen drop-tank crossover vehicle era it evolved with the then-new technology borrowed heavily from rocketry so they were high-engineered, lengthy bolides, not motorcycles. As we know, there were no gyros present except in Tremulis' V8 concept drawings.

    After 18 months or so my life is now changing and I am unable to spend the time needed for Wikipedia, so I decided to abandon this page as 'Law of Diminishing Returns'. In any case, there would likely be cries of OR and Citation Needed - as I perhaps have stated elswhere, top journalists of the day did not write with the intention that some encyclopedia would need exact quotes 50 years later on. What's needed is a hard-published late 1960s account of the development which may chart the changes.

    Although this is an early stub, it should confirm why Wikipedia is not considered to be - and will not be - a reliable source.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:58, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If we're going to qualify speed records as American, FIA approved etc. then we'd probably have to go back and look at almost every article dealing with records, as they haven't been written to a standard, or reviewed. When I see anything that says "set a record", I assume it means a record, not the FIA record. This would be a good thing to bring up at WikiProject Motorcycling if you want to pursue it. — Brianhe (talk) 16:33, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
NSU took care for the presence of FIA officials, Dudek did it too. Mangham did not want do spend the money. But what were the reasons for Leppan? Nonetheless I'm happy that the Gyronaut article has been written, further information may be collected in it. ----130.83.197.103 (talk) 18:07, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have just chanced upon a full-page UK advertisement for Triumph Engineering Co. Ltd., dated 23 March 1967 - post-Daytona where they finished 1 and 2 - with an image of the Dudek/Johnson machine, the caption of which states "Holder of world motorcycle speed record—224.57 m.p.h.". I'm not doing much on Wikipedia but I am doing other research of the same era so I'll continue to look.....

I believe that the FIM track required an extra 2.5 miles be available before the timed section, and that Leppan used the 'Hot Rod' length with shorter run up, so I guess it was cost of preparation (of the salt) which determined AMA and not FIM presence at the 1966 run.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:12, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I discovered something on the site cyclechaos.com: "Bob Leppan's streamliner, the 'Gyronaut X1,' with two 650 Triumph engines sets new US record at 245.6mph (395.2kph) but is not recorded because FIM engine limit is 1,000cc." ----130.83.197.103 (talk) 09:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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